Hell Riders

[Captain of Dragoons]

Last night I finished reading Hell Riders: The Truth about the Charge of the Light Brigade by Terry Brighton.

A good read that uses a lot of first hand accounts of Officers and Men that took part in the Charge. Also a few Russian accounts.

Interestly he disagrees with Mark Adkin's conclusion that Capt Nolan sent the Light Brigade at the guns on purpose (Adkin's The Charge: The Real Reason Why the Light Brigade Was Lost ). Brighton believes that Nolan, when he dashed forward past Cardigan was attempting to move the Light Brigade to the right towards the Causeway Heights.

Brighton believe's the fault should be shared by three of the four; Raglan, Lucan and Nolan. However the Lucan must take the majority of the blame where as he could of asked for confirmation or used his initiative as a senior commander not to carry out a vague order. Brighton believe's this didn't happen partly because of previous events during the campiagn - Ralgan keeping the cavalry in a 'band box' - and the clash of personalities between Lucan and Nolan.

I have read four books on the charge now; Woodham-Smith, Adkin, Brighton and Harris. I find the subject and story of the Light Brigade fascinating.

cheers
Edward

[CoffinDodger]

Edward,

You should really see the proper account; you know, the one with Errol Flynn in it.

Jim

[Captain of Dragoons]

I recall that one,

Indian Mutiny happens before the Crimean and the the evil Indian King in exile is a military advisor to the Russians. Flynn changes the orders to get revenge against the evil Indian King. Believe Flynn's regiment was the 27th Lancers

[thinredline]

Well - Ask a dozen witnesses to any accident, and a traffic cop will get a dozen different versions of the same incident.

The participants are all dead (so I believe ), and all that is left are versions of accounts of people with vested interests in one form or another. Protecting their reputations, or slandering others. As for modern day writers, well, they are entitled to their opinion, and any amount of reading, supposed insight or examination of the battlefield to espouse their own beliefs is what I would call "conjecture" at best. Maybe it helps to sell books.

One thing is probably true however, " the first casualty of war is usually the truth" On the day, it was the men of the Light Brigade that paid the price.

As for Errol F - look at what holywood did to W. Wallace - I ask you. How to put bums on cinema seats has nothing to do with the truth or historical accuracy

Anyone know who shot JFK.
I know for a fact -it wis'ne me

Rant over
Thinredline

[Captain of Dragoons]

Hello Thin Red Line

Well - Ask a dozen witnesses to any accident, and a traffic cop will get a dozen different versions of the same incident.

I would say that's part of the interest and enjoyment of reading and studying history in general and the Charge in particular.

The participants are all dead (so I believe ),

And here we are talking about Raglan, Lucan, Cardigan, Nolan and the rest of the Light Brigade over a hundred years later. Dead yes but in a way immortal.

As for modern day writers, well, they are entitled to their opinion, and any amount of reading, supposed insight or examination of the battlefield to espouse their own beliefs is what I would call "conjecture" at best. Maybe it helps to sell books.

Well, I would say that Woodham-Smith, Adkin, Brighton and Harris have done alot better then Holywood.

cheers
Edward

[obriendavid]

The one person that seems to have escaped the blame game is Cathcart, commander of the 4th Division. If he had shifted his arse as ordered to instead of waiting to have breakfast then taking his time eventually arriving after the 1st Division who had started off behind his then the charge would never have taken place at all. But then we wouldn't have been having this interesting conversation. Just picked up a copy of Orlando Figes Crimea book so it will be interesting to see if he adds anything new to the story.
Cheers
Dave

[Captain of Dragoons]

Another thing I would like to see that is lacking is more info and first hand accounts about the French charge on the left the cleared the Russian guns on that flank which aided the Light Brigade when they withdrew.

cheers

Edward

[obriendavid]

Edward, if you want to send me your email address I can send you a Pdf about the Chasseurs d'Afrique by Dr Douglas Austin you might find interesting.
Cheers
Dave

[thinredline]

We are all entitled to our opinions.

But instead of reading all about the exploits, daring do and how marvellous the Brits were in the Crimea, give a thought to the French, the Turks, and dare I say it, the Russians. We have a infinite diatribe of published material on the Brits in the Crimea, not so much commercially available on the other three main combatants.

Of course, I am probably looking in the wrong place - but a Russian Account of Balaclava might make more entertaining reading

Thinredline

[obriendavid]

Of course, I am probably looking in the wrong place - but a Russian Account of Balaclava might make more entertaining reading
Thinredline

I'll send you something Bob.
Are you going to the Forfar show on Saturday?
Cheers
Dave

[obriendavid]

Bob, you will find a number of Russian eyewitness accounts of the battle on this site as well as masses of info on many other topics.

http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/#Crimean War

Cheers
Dave

[Captain of Dragoons]

Hello Thin Red Line

We are all entitled to our opinions.

I totally agree, thank you for views and your knowledge on the period.

It would be better if we had more sources in english on the Russians, French and Turks. The poor Turks are often discounted.

cheers
Edward

[Captain of Dragoons]

Edward, if you want to send me your email address I can send you a Pdf about the Chasseurs d'Afrique by Dr Douglas Austin you might find interesting

Thanks, David I'll PM you.

cheers
Edward

[obriendavid]

It would be better if we had more sources in english on the Russians, French and Turks. The poor Turks are often discounted.

Try and get hold of these books for a perspective on the Turks.

Money. Edward, 'Twelve months with the Bashi-Bazooks' pub Chapman and Hall, London 1857

Sandwith. Humphrey, 'A narrative on the Siege of Kars' pub London 1856

Lake, Col Atwell, CB; 'Kars and our Captivity in Russia' pub Richard Bentley, London 1856

Slade. Rear Admiral Sir Adolphus, ' Turkey and the Crimean War' pub Smith Elder & Co, London 1867

Buzzard. Thomas MD, 'With the Turkish Army in the Crimea and Asia Minor' pub John Murray, London 1915

Williams. Col. Sir W. Fenwick, 'The Siege of Kars 1855' pub The Stationery Office, London 2000. This is a reprint of the original 1858 version and well worth getting.

Mawson. Micheal Hargreave, 'The True Heroes of Balaklava' pub Crimean Research Society, Bedford 1996

Hope this little lot wets your appatite? I managed to get my grubby paws on most of them through the inter-library lending service in the UK, I'm not sure of the situation abroad.
Cheers
Dave

[thinredline]

Thanks Dave,

I believe a poor little Russian Artillery Officer called Leo Tolstoy was on the North Shore during the seige - but that's my sum knowledge of "the other side" with respect to authors.

I am sure the Crimean War Research Society would have some "foreign" material as ell.

One thing I did glean concerning a meeting of some officers after the hostilities ended was a comment by an Ingermanlandski Hussar Officer on the assault on the "Thinredline". That Thin Red Line only escaped being annalhilated because the supporting Royal Marine Artillery opened up on them, then the Russians wheeled away. Apparently, attacking unsupported infantry in a line was dawdle, Infantry supported by artillery was not on. Imagine what he must have thought of the Light Brigade later that day

It is quite amusing on the point of two differing viewpoints of the same incident Maybe that is a better explanation of my earlier rant with respect to authors, nationality, and viewpoints.

Thinredline