Stradiots and Javelin armed cavalry in TYW ?

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chema1986
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Stradiots and Javelin armed cavalry in TYW ?

Post by chema1986 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:02 am

Hello ! it has been a while since my last post! A couple of days ago, I bought Warlord games supplement "The Devil's Playground" a good book, very eyecandy, but I think it has some mistakes about the "accuracy" of some lists...
As a Spaniard, I was shocked to see in the "Spanish Army list for 1618-1648" apart from the typical musketeers, pikemen, cuirassiers, harquebusiers etc. there are some very strange cavalry types for that era like:
-Stradiots / italian mercenary cavalry armed with crossbows!
-"Ginetes" light cavalry with javelins
- Spanish lancers ( light cavalry)

These three types are the first time I see in that period, and have lots of books and material about TYW and the Spanish army, and I have not seen these in my life ( apart from the armies of the XV and XVI centuries).

What do you think ?

Cheers

Chema
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j1mwallace
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Re: Stradiots and Javelin armed cavalry in TYW ?

Post by j1mwallace » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:44 am

Fully agree. Even warlord themselves say that the lists are only really a suggestion. I have no idea where some of their troop types come from. I use Swedes who appear to have skirmishing light cavalry included . I have no idea what they are. Nor do any of the other guys at the club. We use the lists to stop the guys who want to have their army composed of unrealistic numbers of the "best" troops to win a game. 9/10 games we don't use army lists at all.
Like the rules though
chema1986
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Re: Stradiots and Javelin armed cavalry in TYW ?

Post by chema1986 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:03 pm

yes, you are right, the rules are fine, and the list give you an idea, but there are some very strange o "arcaic" units here and there. Thanks for your response!


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Re: Stradiots and Javelin armed cavalry in TYW ?

Post by TheRightfulKing2013 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:39 pm

The Army of Flanders kept lancers until 1640. The Stradiots were still around, but as for mounted crossbowmen I haven't found evidence of that. However Catalan soldiers included crossbow infantry in the early 1600s (at least rebel ones) according to recently released minituras canovas plates.

Also images from the Count of Clonards research in the late 1800s shows late 17th century lancers in Spanish service known as "stradiots" (supposed 1690s), but now wearing the yellow just a corps coats with red vertical lapels and a white/red checkerboard pattern on the edges of the lapels and cuffs and pockets, and a white chamberga hat - though at this stage they were part of the Guardia del Rey and its not clear to me whether they were a combat unit or just a ceremonial one.

The Osprey book on Imperial armies of the thirty years war says a small number of 3/4 armour cuirassuer lancers remained in Imperial service. The Scots used buffcoated lancers wearing burgonet helmets in the War of the Three Kingdoms. The Scots and armies that recruited them included Highlanders using the bow. The Osprey book on The Armies of Gustavus Adolphus shows Scots Highland archers in plaid. The Lapps in Swedish service also used the bow.
chema1986
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Re: Stradiots and Javelin armed cavalry in TYW ?

Post by chema1986 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:06 pm

TheRightfulKing2013 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:39 pm
The Army of Flanders kept lancers until 1640. The Stradiots were still around, but as for mounted crossbowmen I haven't found evidence of that. However Catalan soldiers included crossbow infantry in the early 1600s (at least rebel ones) according to recently released minituras canovas plates.

Also images from the Count of Clonards research in the late 1800s shows late 17th century lancers in Spanish service known as "stradiots" (supposed 1690s), but now wearing the yellow just a corps coats with red vertical lapels and a white/red checkerboard pattern on the edges of the lapels and cuffs and pockets, and a white chamberga hat - though at this stage they were part of the Guardia del Rey and its not clear to me whether they were a combat unit or just a ceremonial one.

The Osprey book on Imperial armies of the thirty years war says a small number of 3/4 armour cuirassuer lancers remained in Imperial service. The Scots used buffcoated lancers wearing burgonet helmets in the War of the Three Kingdoms. The Scots and armies that recruited them included Highlanders using the bow. The Osprey book on The Armies of Gustavus Adolphus shows Scots Highland archers in plaid. The Lapps in Swedish service also used the bow.
Yes you are right, The Army of Flanders kepts small units of lancers but... we are not sure if they really used the lance, the units were Lancer guards of the governor general and such. At least in the League of Augsburg War, the name was the same, but obviusly the did not carry the lances in 1690' but yes until 1640.
About the Stradiots, as far as I know, there were a tiny units of Estradiotes de la guardia in the Real Alcazar protecting the King, but not in campaign or field battles ( I think ).
Regarding the crossbowmen I only can think of its use during a nitght "encamisada"/camisade but not in units armed with it.
Warlord Games failed with that.
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