The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

OK, so after two years I've finally given in to having a section of the FORUM specifically set up to discuss painting techniques, display examples, show your latest projects and chat about this vital part of the hobby. Manufacturers please feel free to post up your sculpts, ask questions about what the gamers are after and generally promote your work.. no charge! Painters, please also feel free to post up your work for comment and critique. I can't promise the unreserved adulation characteristic of some other fora but I would hope you'd get constructive and measured comment!
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by obriendavid » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:36 pm

Many thanks for posting all this up Gunter, I for one am really enjoying it and makes me want to start my Saxon army but it will have to wait until I finish with my Irish Jacobites.
Cheers
Dave
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:02 pm

obriendavid wrote:Many thanks for posting all this up Gunter, I for one am really enjoying it and makes me want to start my Saxon army but it will have to wait until I finish with my Irish Jacobites.
Cheers
Dave
Thank You Dave :D It's not over yet!
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Friedrich August I. » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:05 pm

Part IX:

1701. The Campaign of 1701 started actual with Peace talks as Saxony, after the seperate Peace of Denmark with Sweden and the defeat of Russia, stood alone against the mighty Enemy Charles XII. But the Talks failed again so Saxony opened up the war again but without confidence, without the right earnest and without the needed means. King August II. and his Army were in a dire position as the chances for satisfactory war result were thin. To Counsel the further moves in the coming Campaign the allied Monarchs, Tsar Peter and King August, met in March 1701 at Birsen in Lithuania.
In April 1701 the Saxon Troops marched from their Winterquarters in the fortified Lines along the Düna form Kokenhausen to the water mouth. The Line was instead of her strong fortifications to long and so not able to withstand an enemy who moves against it in force as the time would show.
At the start of the Campaign 1701 there were the following troops available along the Düna:
Infantry - The weak Polish Crownguard, 2 Regiments German Garde, Regiment Königin, Regiment Kurprinz, Regiment Egedy*, Regiment Thielau, Regiment Sacken, Regiment Steinau.
Cavalry - Kürassiere Leibregiment, Königin, Kurprinz and Steinau
Dragoons Leibregiment, Kurprinz, Milkau, Golz, Stammer.
* the Regiments would from now on be named after their Commanders with exception of those who had princly Persons or Fieldmarshals as Chiefs

Charles XII. moved from Dorpat with 30.000 men against the Düna forward where the hostilities were opened on June 9th at Ronneburg and on June 21st at Reuenmühlen.
On July 3rd a Russian Auxiliary Corps under General Count Repnin arrived with 12.716 men and 32 Cannons near Kokenhausen.
19. July 1701 Battle at the Düna.
Gen. v. Patkul, the real Commander of the Saxon forward Lines, had without reason to much trust into the toughness of the Fortification alongside the Düna. As such the Saxon lines were broken in the first attempt of the Swedes who forced a crossing over the Düne north of Riga on July 19th 1701 by daybreak.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... C_1701.jpg
Fieldmarshal v. Steinau who arrived on the scene quite early sent immediate order to all close stationed troops to converge here but couldn't stop the Swedes because of the swamplike terrain all arround which prevented the Saxon Cavalry to play their role. After a 2 hour fight and because of the growing superiority of the Swedes he ordered the withdrawel of the Saxon on the left side of the Düna while drawing all troops to him out of the defensive works as of the forward and rearward Lines. In full marching order but exhausted and deprimed the Saxon Troops together with parts of the Russians arrived at Thomsdorf-Brochwitz, 2 Miles (15km) and camped there to rest. It were only 4.400 Saxon engagded in the Battle, the Infantry Regiment Königin, Kurprinz and Thielau and 4 Kürassier Regiments whilst the Swedish had 20.000 men deployed for battle. The Saxon lost about 1000 men, the swedish only 500, also most of the baggadge train has fallen into swedish hands.
Within the following days the Retreat got first led sout than east. On July 28th the Russian parted from the Saxons and moved to Dünaburg while the Saxons moved into the direction of Kowno where they arrived on August 5th 1701. Because of the bad shape of the Saxon Army and the problems that were caused by the Polish lands King August II. decided to remove all Saxon Forces from the Polish soil and tranfer them back to Saxony where the arrived on Sept. 25th in Guben.

To be continued.

Thanks for following
Günter
Last edited by Friedrich August I. on Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Tacitus » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:04 pm

While I enjoy reading your posts about the history of the Saxon army I do feel compelled to criticise the numbers you are presenting. You are obviously relying on Saxons sources and the numbers shown here paint them in a too favourable ligth.
Friedrich August I. wrote:Charles XII. moved from Dorpat with 30.000 men against the Düna forward where the hostilities were opened on June 9th at Ronneburg and on June 21st at Reuenmühlen.
In my sources the field army leaving Dorpat is estimated to be 18 000 or 19 000 men strong. The figure of 30 000 is more likely to be the combined strength of all Swedish forces in the Baltic provinces, which includes garrisons and a very small field army guarding the Russian border. Charles XII had to deploy every soldier he could spare in his field army in order to evict the Saxons from the Düna.
It wer only 4.400 Saxon engagded in the Battle, the Infanty Regiment Königin, Kurprinz and Thielau and 4 Kürassier Regiments whilst the Swedish had 20.000 men deployed for battle.
This time you seem to be referring to the actual Swedish field army at Düna (although the number have been rounded up), but you are still comparing apples with oranges. Most of the Swedish army never crossed the Düna before the battle was over. The Swedish force that was actually participating in the battle is in my sources recorded to have been about 7 000 men. And all of these were of course not present at the battle field during the critical and decisive first phase of the battle when the bridge head was established.

It is by the way interesting to note how different the various editions of Wikipedia are in presenting the numbers. English wikipedia states (referring to Swedish litterature) that there were 7 100 Swedes fighting 9 000 Saxons and 10 000 Russians. The Swedish edition have the same numbers but with Poles instead of Russians! The German edition have bigger numbers for both armies with the Swedes at 14 000 men and the allied army at 29 000 men. The German edition is also referring to Swedish books, but much older ones, and I believe that their figure for the allied army includes 20 000 Russians since I have come across that number before in older Swedish books. it is common in Swedish sources to overestimate Russian forces (they usually had a very large number of camp followers).
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Friedrich August I. » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:22 pm

Tacitus,

I am completly with you in that matter. As I stated more then once I write this tread after Schuster&Frankes "The History of the Saxon Army".
At the time of writing this book it was 1885, a time period where exact numbers were not at hand(anymore?) because of at this time Europe wasn't quite "pulling on one string" so to speak.

I didn't use any Wikipedia entries on this writing because I saw the differences between language based sources. The only thing I have used have been the pictures attached in Wikipedia.

One thing is definetly sure: The History is allways written by the victors!

Thanks for your input

Günter
Last edited by Friedrich August I. on Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Friedrich August I. » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:03 am

After reading the Book of Reinhold Müller 'Die Armee August's des Starken 1730-1733'
It make's me sure of one thing:
The Guns have been even in this era painted black with yellow painted metal work!
That throws a bad light on the kind of research a high renowned writer has put to paper about Saxon Artillery. Bronze metal work would have been to expensive and not as tough as Iron.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:01 am

Dear Followers of this Tread!

It is all Barry's fault! :wink:
Now I get delusions of grandeur. To hell with doing a portion of my Saxons!
The complete Army must be done :twisted:
Starting this week.
While I will try to paint a unit myself I send my painter Neil Wilson some Battalions to paint them in the same time so that I get at least 10-12 Battalions with the same amount of Squadrons and a few Fieldguns.

I feel like the German Empire in World War One who tried to outmatch the shipyards of the British Empire in the Dreadnaught building program :roll: :D
I look to the near future and see alot of Battalions are to be raised. NOT starting with Guards like other does but a few certain units with distinct service record.
Even as I think that the carriges of the 'monsters' are not correct I will do them anyway as I dont have the time and the funds right now to buy the right ones.
More of it when I formed up my mind :roll:

Cheers,
Günter
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Friedrich August I. » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:42 am

Dear Friends,

to show my degree of inflamement by what happened on the last weekend I herewith present you with what I mean with building an entire Army:

Saxon Army:
Commanding General: H.M. King of Poland and Elector of Saxony

Left Wing: Generallieutenant Graf von Flemming
First Line: Generalmajor von der Marwitz
Leib Dragoon Regiment (3)
Goltz Dragoon Regiment (3)
Leib Cavalry Regiment (2)
Leibgarde zu Pferd Regiment (3)
Kurprinz Cavalry Regiment (3)
Eichstedts Cavalry Regiment (3)

2nd Line: Oberst Bodo von der Schulenburg
Leib Dragoon Regiment (3)
Goltz Dragoon Regiment (3)
Leib Cavalry Regiment (2)
Leibgarde zu Pferd Regiment (3)
Kurprinz Cavalry Regiment (3)
Eichstedts Cavalry Regiment (3)

Middle: Generallieutenant von der Schulenburg
First Line:
Polish Guard Infantry Regiment (2)
Kurprinz Infantry Regiment (2)
Biechlings Infantry Regiment (2)
Köningin Infantry Regiment (2)
Saxon Guard Infantry Regiment (2)

2nd Line: Generalmajor Wenediger
Steinaus Infantry Regiment (2)
Görtz Infantry Regiment (2)
Pistoris Infantry Regiment (2)

Right Wing: Generalmajor von Trampe
lst Line: Generalmajor von Reichenau
Steinus Cavalry Regiment (3)
Jordans Cavalry Regiment (3)
Köningin Cavalry Regiment (3)
Leibgarde Regiment (2)
Milchaus Dragoon Regiment (3)
Kurprinz Dragoon Regiment (3)

2nd Line: Generalmajor von Brause
Steinus Cavalry Regiment (3)
Jordans Cavalry Regiment (3)
Köningin Cavalry Regiment (3)
Leibgarde Regiment (2)
Milchaus Dragoon Regiment (3)
Kurprinz Dragoon Regiment (3)

Artillery: Generalmajor Graf von Wackerbarth
22 l2pdr guns
24 3pdr guns

In terms of numbers that would be

12.000 Infantry
8.000 Cavalry
46 guns

Some of the names above will be changed by using my knowledge gathered over the last years.

Work has started on the Artillery and my first Infantry Battalion.

Keep watching

Cheers,
Günter
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Pintschow, 19. Juli 1702.jpg
Pintschow, 19. Juli 1702.jpg (148.43 KiB) Viewed 4481 times
Last edited by Friedrich August I. on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Ben Waterhouse » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:36 am

This is going to be fun to watch!
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:03 pm

Gentlemen,

to show that I am not only a wind bag here is my first unit, shots are from WIP:

Saxon Artillery, should be Field Artillery but have currently only a 'Light'Model at hand. Followers will recognize the once mentioned color scheme as 'Bumblebee' Artillery:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

More pics as work goes on.

Günter
Last edited by Friedrich August I. on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Redmist1122 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:39 pm

Gunter,
Very nice! I may have to match you to finish out my Saxon Army. I don't plan on doing as much as you, but will try to keep pace to finish out mine. I hope to share some pic as well.
Thanks for sharing...looking forward to future installments.
Greg P.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by obriendavid » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:34 pm

Friedrich August I. wrote:Gentlemen, to show that I am not only a wind bag here is my first unit, shots are from WIP:
Saxon Artillery, should be Field Artillery but have currently only a 'Light'Model at hand. Followers will recognize the once mentioned color scheme as 'Bumblebee' Artillery: Günter
I hope that gun has a real sting in its barrel :wink:
I look forward to seeing more Gunter.
Cheers
Dave
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:56 pm

obriendavid wrote:......I hope that gun has a real sting in its barrel :wink:
I look forward to seeing more Gunter.
Cheers
Dave
That is something time will have to show :!:
But hopefully it wont run like the battle on Derby where I had the misfortune to loose my Fieldgun after the 2nd turn by misfire :roll: :cry:
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"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by Churchill » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:49 pm

Ray.
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Re: The raising of the Saxon Army 1699-1712

Post by barr7430 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:18 pm

They look really fine Gunter! Love the gun as well... fine colours for the bumble bee (Hummel!) :)
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