A couple of queries about BTLB2 rules.

Any questions relating to Beneath the Lily Banners rule system.
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Herkybird
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A couple of queries about BTLB2 rules.

Post by Herkybird » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:34 pm

Hi everyone!

We had a game of BTLB2 today to try to get more convercent with the rules, many of our previous games have been disrupted by discussions about what parts of the rules mean!

Today, we found 3 areas of difficulty we could not find answers to in the rule book:

1) A cavalry squadron routed off table (they were surrounded and could go nowhere else) The pursuers had to follow, do the pursuers come back on table later, and if so, how?

2) The Rules (Page 51 'Support') - seem to say a brigade of 3 battalions, which loses 1 of its battalions leaves the other 2 battalions of the brigade 'Isolated', though if a nearby battalion of a different brigade is close it they are neither Supported or Isolated. Is this right?

3) One of our cavalry units tried to attack an enemy cavalry unit from the edge of a light wood, but could not charge, as it was disordered. The trouble was, the enemy horse was within 3" of them, so they could not move forward at all as they were in 'minimum separation distance'. What can we do in this instance?

We managed to sort another query, which was about when you test to charge home. It was on the BTLB1 adenda sheet available from this site.
We thought it a pity the charge sequence for Horse on that didnt make it into BTLB2! :roll:
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flick40
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Re: A couple of queries about BTLB2 rules.

Post by flick40 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:58 pm

Question #1; I don't think there is a rule so feel free to make a house rule. I personally wouldn't give them much of a chance to return depending on their morale grade and that of their pursuit. Money can be made by capturing important figures but by the same token higher class troops are more motivated to serve their lord.

Question #2; yes, they don't get a bonus but they also don't suffer the minus.

Question #3; you cannot end your turn closer than the minimum separation distance. If you have room to move past then you can. Some people treat it like a DBA-esque zone of control and the unit would be pinned. See my final comments on a way to resolve issues.

Part of these rules is to place yourself in the shoes of those who fought during the time they are written to cover. A sort of roleplay if you will. When you get to a point where the rules are vague use that role play to sort the situation. An example, In this period I feel that if surrounded/ trapped the unit would surrender hoping to be ransomed later. Some war gamers like to fight to the death when it simply did not happen. Giving your commanders and brigadiers a personality and brief background can also help you decide how they would react in a given situation. Bottom line, have fun. :)

Joe
"Is that your opinion or the game masters ruling?"
Herkybird
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Re: A couple of queries about BTLB2 rules.

Post by Herkybird » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:04 pm

Thanks for the ruling, I will pass it on to my friends and we will play on happily! 8)

One query though, in point 2, the rules seems to make a unit from a different brigade more important than a unit in its own brigade regarding support!
Surely this must be wrong!?

I would have thought if 2 battalions (out of 3) remained to a brigade, the remaining 2 would be neither supported or isolated if close to each other.
I cannot understand the logic of making a different brigade unit more supporting!
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barr7430
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Re: A couple of queries about BTLB2 rules.

Post by barr7430 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:55 pm

I don't think you are reading that rule correctly. Supported: 2 units from own brigade, steady and within command distance. Neither supported or isolated 1 unit from own brigade + 1 from another brigade meeting the same conditions unless it is a 2 unit brigade originally. I will of course have to look up the text again to see exactly what I have written but the rule works fine and I can't remember it being questioned in a long time.
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

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Re: A couple of queries about BTLB2 rules.

Post by Herkybird » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:27 pm

barr7430 wrote:I don't think you are reading that rule correctly. Supported: 2 units from own brigade, steady and within command distance. Neither supported or isolated 1 unit from own brigade + 1 from another brigade meeting the same conditions unless it is a 2 unit brigade originally. I will of course have to look up the text again to see exactly what I have written but the rule works fine and I can't remember it being questioned in a long time.
I was surprised in my last game when my Imperial opponent pointed out the actual text of the rule...this led to the rapid demise of my French horse!
FYI the rule reads:

"A foot unit is supported if 2 other units from its own brigade are within 6 inches, over half strength, in line and in good order. It is neither supported or isolated if two units meet the criteria but are not both from its own brigade. Otherwise it is isolated. A squadron of horse....etc etc"

As you can see, the possibility of 2 units of the same brigade providing a neutral state of support is not mentioned.

(BTLB2 - Page 51; Support)

The bottom line is;

If 2 units remain of a larger brigade, with no other brigade nearby, are they both isolated.
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Re: A couple of queries about BTLB2 rules.

Post by Herkybird » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:29 pm

After e-mailing Barry, I have accepted his valid reasoning for the Support rule making even 2 units of the same brigade in order and close isolated.
I think i will have to change my style of play!
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Re: A couple of queries about BTLB2 rules.

Post by Herkybird » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:26 pm

Well, we had another game on Saturday and have decided the Support rule is far too savage, and IMHO actually spoiled the game!
(The write up is on my blog at: http://herkybird-richardbradley.blogspo ... pport.html

Next game, we will use this;

If there are 2 (not routers or retiring) units of your own brigade within 6" (foot) or 9" (horse), the unit is supported.

If there is only 1 such unit, or a unit from a neighbouring brigade within 6/9", the unit is neither supported or isolated.

If no other such units within 6/9", the unit is isolated.

This is what we did at first, having misread the rules!

Its simple, and seems much more logical to us.
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