Napoleon OR Black Powder OR R2E OR Lasalle?

Questions, chat, feedback and developments relating to REPUBLIC TO EMPIRE... Wargaming the wars of Napoleon Bonaparte.
davidsharpe
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Post by davidsharpe » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:41 am

Hello Clarence

I have been on your blog, i bought RTE after your puente de piedra scenario.

But if you want to get the average napoleonic miniature wargamer into RTE, you should offer them AAR with detailed comments on what is happensing, photos and computer drawings of the evolution of the situation, like Warhammer does.

Your Battle for almarez is too confusing for the average gamer, too many units, beautiful but like an hieroglyphe for the casual dude.

Friendly yours

D
"British infantry ? In Duel, it s the Devil !"
Général Foy to Napoléon in the morning of june the 18th, 1815.
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CoffinDodger
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Post by CoffinDodger » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:35 pm

davidsharpe wrote: ...Your Battle for almarez is too confusing for the average gamer, too many units, beautiful but like an hieroglyphe for the casual dude.
I must be missing something here, despite the limitations of my geriatric brain matter, I understood it perfectly well.

Jim
“I can assure you, Gentlefolk, they look better from a distance."
Jim O'Neill.
davidsharpe
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Post by davidsharpe » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:11 pm

Hello Jim

I meant for the casual player who doesn t know RTE and who has not many experience in wargaming miniature.
Not for you or me.

RTE is a rule with inertia in activation and "must do" obligations in orders, all that is quite unseen in other rules.

Casual player loves "liberty of movement", he needs to see the beauty of
limited control on troops once they have gotten their orders.

Friendly yours

D
"British infantry ? In Duel, it s the Devil !"
Général Foy to Napoléon in the morning of june the 18th, 1815.
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quindia
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Post by quindia » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:37 pm

I don't disagree about the effect a well done AAR may have on drawing players to the game and I actually do have plans to do more of these, but we might just have to accept the fact that R2E may not be for the casual gamer. I have never understood the fact that we spend months and years painting our armies and then cast around for a rule set that we can read through once and set out on world conquest.

I like simple games too. My favorite skirmish rules are ones that I wrote and fit onto a single page (Spencer says I need to add another 47 pages of photos, examples, and fluff and publish them). I've used them for Dark Ages, Napoleonic, and Colonial periods, each with minimal modifications. However, these wouldn't be for everyone either. They will be too minimalist for competition gamers and benefit from the presence of a GM. They also use a card system for actions so the 'free movers' won't like them either. These happen to be things that I like and as they were intended for my table, that's how it goes.

For me R2E is similar. I like the command rules. That is what makes the game in my opinion. The combat mechanics are straight forward enough and make up the shorted section of the book. You could probably play R2E ignoring the orders and end up with a game much like Black Powder.

Bottom line is everyone is not going to like R2E (hey, I don't like LaSalle). We will certainly continue to support the game and I'll see about some more small scenarios with AARs!
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Post by davidsharpe » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:55 pm

Hello Clarence

It was a suggestion.
Personally i bought RTE, the friend i play with too, i am going to buy Black powder by curiosity.
RTE is a gem underestimated by the common public of gamers, they think it s too complex and slow to play.
It s not true, but they think so.

I am interested to see your next pages on your Blog Clarence.

friendly yours.

D
"British infantry ? In Duel, it s the Devil !"
Général Foy to Napoléon in the morning of june the 18th, 1815.
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barr7430
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Post by barr7430 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:22 pm

Generally speaking I am in agreement with David's comments.

Probably a good time to make some comments of my own..

R2E has been a slow burn, quiet success for Clarence and I but has not yet reached its true potential in my opinion. Its initial negative press was in most part due to ill informed comment on TMP and then an overly quoted, very poorly written review in Miniature Wargames which I understand led to that author finally hanging up his pen in the public arena (can't say I am sorry about that). Other reviews in the early days were not based on playing the rules but on reading through them.

With the benefit of hindsight I would change certain aspects of the book's layout (nothing to do with Clarence's layout out and graphics work but rather my writing style and chapter content) but almost nothing in terms of content and mechanics.

People who play the rules quickly release their relative simplicity and the logic around which the core mechanics revolve. Of course I or the other 'experts' cannot be present everytime someone wants to try the rules.. unfortunate, as I would happily invest time assisting every gamer if I could! And the perception of complication is a barrier as David points out (less so now though than at the beginning)

The successes so far are for me:
1. The number of copies sold.. now over 800
2. The reaction of players when they actually play a game
3. The change in tone of web comments towards much more positive and reasoned perspectives. The rules have far more frequent positive press now than ever before.

With regard to 'entry level scenarios' quite a few are already in print in WI..
1815 Genappe
1815 First contact on the Sambre
1806 Lubeck
1812 Shevardino

A larger scale scenario for Borodino with appear soon. Of course, you can never have enough material to publicise and promote rules but Clarence and I are only two blokes with very busy work and family commitments and do not have the manpower or financial muscle that can be put behind such as Black Powder or Napoleon. All of Foundry's commercial muscle could not, it appears save the latter from hugely negative press nevertheless.

So, what can be done to further promote Republic to Empire?

AARs of course. These need to be frequent and accessible. I will be happy to have all/any uploaded into this forum, or alternatively uploaded into the WARCHEST. A scenario book is also a great idea and is planned but I would be equally happy if someone else wanted to take the lead in writing or compiling such a book either for PDF release or printing via Wordtwister Publishing. I would act as Editor.

The high profile of Lasalle was achieved by the ubiquitous Sam Mustafa appearing to practically live 24 hours a day on TMP. That was good promo for his book but of course Lasalle is now out of print with I understand no plans to reprint. So, this too is a possible promo route with frequent AARs uploaded to the various TMP Boards and a more active response to questions, comments, criticism and ideas in that place.

If anyone out there seriously or casually wants to take up any of these activities both Clarence and I would be more than happy.

William Keyser, David Sharpe and others have already come up with variants, house rules and suggestions which I am very comfortable to support if anyone wants to take them a little further and pull it all together.

If you are out there and you want to do any of the following please get in touch:

1. Contribute AARs or scenarios in any scale for upload to the WARCHEST.

2. Start a positive information campaign via various gaming Fora.

3. Pull together scenario PDFs or even discuss working on a scenario book for the Napoleonic Wars in general or a specific phase of the war.

REPUBLIC TO EMPIRE has plenty of legs to run, if you want to keep the flag flying we'd be happy too!

B
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

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Post by CoffinDodger » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:44 pm

barr7430 wrote: ...2. Start a positive information campaign via various gaming Fora.
Barry,

As you probably know, but some of our friends may not, I have a dedicated page to RtE on BoardGameGeek and the link is HERE.

I've managed to upload a combination of images from Barry (with his permission) along with some of my own. A biased review is included and almost ALL of the feedback has been positive with some of it resulting in a few sales.

Now, BoardGameGeek is a forum for boardgamers (yes, I do play some) but it also encompasses miniature games so, if there are other forums out there that anyone else belongs to then start spreading the Gospel.

I've also contributed to a similar page for BtLB.

Just my tuppence worth.

Jim
“I can assure you, Gentlefolk, they look better from a distance."
Jim O'Neill.
davidsharpe
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Post by davidsharpe » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:48 pm

Hello Barry

I think your design, David, Clarence, and you, has the potential to be
THE great rules system covering napoleonic period.

I shall carry on with the série of House rules Propositions i begun today.
Next i have the project to create some small or moderate scenarios with story telling and Comments.
But it will take time.
I need a good camera to take photos.
In october something could be ready.

Friendly yours

D
"British infantry ? In Duel, it s the Devil !"
Général Foy to Napoléon in the morning of june the 18th, 1815.
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