Napoleon OR Black Powder OR R2E OR Lasalle?

[barr7430]

How do you disguise yourself Gunter?.. I am amazed that you are still alive.. living in Austria and loving the French so much Surely the Empire was the greatest and most consistent enemy of France through the ages, never mind the short Bonaparte interval!

Very interesting issues and ideas on this thread. Glad to see the comments from Oz ...John.
I had not thought that R2E had been eclipsed in Australia by Lasalle but I got the impression from Nic that Lasalle was very popular. I haven't seen or heard that same positive reaction here in the UK.
The talk around BP has been of the same tone and the comments about Napoleon almost identical.
I think all of those realises may have been purely coincidental but there might have been an element of the 'spoiler' from Napoleon. I had been trailing the release of R2E openly for many months before. I know BP was on the stocks for a long time and was pretty common knowledge. Stateside rules are less well known in the UK so I honestly had no idea that Lasalle was coming out.
Clarence and I took our time and realised when we were ready, about 5 months later than originally planned.

[Anonymous]

Barry,

We have that many foreign people in our country so a disguise for me is not to be needed
After you uncovered my true identity its time for me to take the offensive and posting on all parts of the LOA-Forum where I can/have something to say

Cheers

Günter

[valleyboy]

Just oredered my second copy of RTE - so good I wanted to buy it twice

My gaming mate has been covetting my rules, its his 40th birthday soon so I think I've found the ideal gift

[CoffinDodger]

I got a copy for my wife.

Seemed like a good deal at the time.

BOOM BOOM.

[barr7430]

Valleyboy.. thank you.. I will do as you requested in your PM to me

By the way, if you have a 1,000 other mates with birthdays coming up.. wave the rules under their noses too!

[valleyboy]

By the way, if you have a 1,000 other mates with birthdays coming up.. wave the rules under their noses too!

The only other friends I have Barry are the 9,000 15mm figures that I regularly send to their deaths, sob
Maybe I should do the right thing and buy them each a copy

[quindia]

Maybe I should do the right thing and buy them each a copy

Now your talkin!

[kiwipeterh]

Hi Valleyboy,

<snipped>

1812 was the Year of the First World War because all arround the world were fights going on.

<snipped>

Günter

Hello Gunter

As an alternative point of view some people consider the Seven Years War to be the First World War.



Salute
von Peter himself, purveyor of less than totally useful or focussed information

[Anonymous]

Hi Peter,

and they are right, from a certain point of view.

Only that 1812 nearly all of europe was united under one banner in war against 2 Nations, Britain and Russia. At Sea and the Colonnies raged war between Britain, US, French, Dutch, Danish, Spanish. In the United States a war was going on. Oh, and Russia just signed a peacy treaty with the Turks (but was at war with it at the start of 1812).

But who I am to argue with the Czar of Holy Russia

After visiting your website for some times now I dont think that I have to tell you somethig about history

Cheers

Günter

[Raymondh]

Firstly you say Lasalle’s “points system seems to lend it towards competition gamers”. I would put it a lot more strongly than that. I think ALL of Lasalle is unashamedly aimed at competition / tournament gamers! There’s nothing wrong with that of course, but it does explain why the rules have done so well in Australia because the tournament scene here is very strong

Just to concur with what John is saying. Here in NZ the competition scene is VERY strong (its one of my biggest gripes about being a Pommie wargamer downunder). - Those old mates of mine from Edinburgh will remember that competitions were never my favourite part of the game - Getting the locals here in Wellington out of the competiton mindset is very difficult and, for this reason the Napoleonic bods at our club seem to be heading down the Lasalle road. Now I haven't used the rules yet so can't really comment on how good / bad they are. I have to say though, that having played Black Powder and R2E I much prefer the latter. Black Powder weren't bad but didn't make you feel you were taking part in a Napoleonic battle it could have pretty much been anyone with a musket.

I have a couple of mates here who are keen to try out R2E over the next couple of weeks (or as soon as I get the rest of my Spanish painted )
So hopefully I might manage to convert a few.

BTW. I'm heartily in agreement with O'Brien. NO to army lists. Don't be so damned lazy - go out and do a bit of research

Ray

[kiwipeterh]

Personally I would rather see scenarios rather than points or army lists. But then I have quite a few years of gaming and, most importantly, reading under my belt and am happy to construct my own armies. I prefer to play wargames than play maximise the army list. While I often enjoy looking over army lists I have never agreed with them 100% ... or even got close!

<snipped>

Just to concur with what John is saying. Here in NZ the competition scene is VERY strong (its one of my biggest gripes about being a Pommie wargamer downunder).

<snipped>

Ray

Hello Raymond

It seems we are both local to Wellington, NZ though I don't think we have met ... which perhaps illustrates my viewpoint which differs a little from yours.

From my perspective I'm not so sure that the competition scene is that strong compared to the non competition scene over here. Perhaps it's more the case that the competition scene has a higher profile. Much of the discussion on the Yahoo group 'nzwargaming_Discuss' seems focussed on conventions etc as that is one way those contributors keep in touch as they are spread throughout NZ. Also the formal/official clubs, eg. Wellington Warlords, tend to have a concentration of convention/competition players as they naturally congregate in such a club (though from past experience the Wellington Warlords are far from being overrun by competition gamers).

There are many 'unaffiliated' groups of gamers out there privately going about their hobby in almost total anonymity to most others. Some of these gamers used to be part of the more organised hobby and some never have. They game in spare bedrooms, dedicated hobby rooms or even hire out small community halls. They are not deliberately isolationist, they are just happy doing what they are doing. I am aware of several groups around Wellington and the Kapiti Coast and learned of another one just last week.

And FWIW my own gaming is with informal groupings of gamers (a 'rabble' of gamers?) for the vast majority of whom competition gaming is anathema.

Just my point of view. Good gaming.

Salute
von Peter himself

[obriendavid]

[quote="Raymondh Those old mates of mine from Edinburgh will remember that competitions were never my favourite part of the game - Ray[/quote]

Less of the old Mr H
Just come back for a holiday Raymond and we'll arrange a game or two.
Cheers
Dave

[davidsharpe]

Hello

There is a boom in napoleonic 28mm wargaming because of plastic and numerous rules appearing suddenly at the same time.

RTE is the most ambitious (in historical simulation) design, BP, Lassalle and Napoleon are more “gamey” rules, but RTE is not THE rules most gamers play.
Why ?
First, it looks like too difficult to master
Second, no or rare AAR on players blogs
Third, it has not any competition compatibility.

How could RTE could become leader on the napoleonic rules market ?
I think AAR with photos and with rules in action description and commentary would solve First and Second reason.

Why not a scenario booklet with AAR description ?
A free version online or a selled version on paper would show the qualities of RTE and it s historical depth.

The third (competiton compatibility) is not an option.
Many have said it, armies varied greatly (periods and theaters), particularly the french ones,
Points system leads to “gamey tricks”.

But many players prefer "easy" looking rules, RTE is playable but doesn t look playable.
Players need exemples, playable scenarios (with their small painted armies), RTE , except with puente de piedra scenario, offered big battles or big skirmishes scenarios.
That doesn t hit the majority of players who prefer other rules.

They need some small scenarios, with few units, with , perhaps, rules adaptation for down scale formations (2 batallions brigades),
with photos and story telling about how it works and why player A did that and so on, and historical flavour.

Make the players dream, that s the point !

[quindia]

There is at least one 'starter scenario' involving a handful of units and notes for scaling down the action on my blog...

http://quindiastudios.blogspot.com/2010 ... mpire.html

It doesn't get much smaller. I had the intention to post more of these and I will, but I have argued since before the rules were even published that it wasn't necessary to use two 6x12' tables. EVERY game I've played with R2E, with the exception of the three we ran at Historicon have been played on a 4x6' or 4x8' table (or even the 4x4' scenario above), using the rules for smaller actions I put on my blog. These rules have also been published in Wargames Illustrated along with scenarios of modest size.

As far as appeal to competition gamers, it's not something we are concerned about. Republic to Empire sales remain steady, they are THE set in Scotland, and there are growing pockets of players in other countries, including the US.

With BLB2 absorbing our attention for the last few months, it may seem R2E has been neglected, but rest assured we have plans to continue to support the set...

[Friedrich August I.]

Hi,

I start to wonder why players look for competiton in rules that are not written for such a case
There are so many rulesets out there that has been written for Competitors over the last 20 Years that someone could think nothing else is possible.

BUT, after Years of playing (and testing) Barry WROTE rules who are for Players who dont want to fight battles with single Squadrons or Batallions but with Divisions, Corps or even Armies

If someone looks for Scenarios I advice to take a history book of the Napoleonic Wars and start fighting several hundred engagements from 1792 to 1815. Nothing more nothing less.

Besides, NAPOLEONIC Wargamers dont need fantasy to play a battle but the will and the stomach to face no win situations, fighting Rearguard-Actions, Large scale assaults or fights against al odds.
If You read this lines carefully You will see my disliking of competition games

If you realy look for scenarios refer to books like "Scenarios for War Gamers" by Charles Grant.

No Offence intended but IMHO Competitiongames are pure nonsense

Best Wishes

Günter