Table size and battle size

[Gunfreak]

Now I'm reading the book, it says you can confertably fit a divisional game on 4x6 table, and even two divisions on 8x5,

But I'm having problems seeing it.

Most of my units are 32 and 24 strong, between 15 and 20cm frontage, with cav up to 24 cm frontage.

That means on my 4x7 table I can only fit about 14 24 strong battalions in a line accros my table, so in theory I can get a full division all in line, if that division is less then 14 strong, but that leaves no room to move, even at 12 battalions it's cramed, now ad cavalry and artillery and you got a bog down.

Even if the table was 5x8 you can only get 16 battalions in line on it. Not nearly enough for a 2 divisions vs 2 divisions, which could be 24 pluss battalions and sevral regiments of cav and batteries.

Just how does it work? I know that not all battalions will be in line all the time, but still, and 5 feet on the short end dosn't seem like much, when cav got a charge range of 42 inches, that means that if not in round 1, round two will surley mean some cav comes with in charge range.

Any explanation of this will be helpfull

[sotek111]

Hello!

I don't attest to being an expert --- but based on my experiences so far I would say that first a division can be of very different sizes. For example, a "small" division could be two brigades ... one infantry brigade with 3-5 infantry battalions and the second brigade with two cavalry regiments or another 3-5 infantry units. That could be as few as 6 infantry units total ... or 10 ... which no doubt could be tight on a 4x6 ... but not impossible.

I am parital to at least a 6'x8' ... I want at least 6' between players to work with ... my permanent setup is a 6'x12'. I see Barry's games that are normally played with 8' between the players ...

Some other thoughts here ... one of the states of mind I had to change when a couple of x-Warhammer players started gaming in my group was that you don't have to put every unit on the table at exactly 12" beside each other. Fighting "in depth" - having a second line, goes a long way to ensure reserves are readily available to fill - when those lead units start retreating/routing.

Also --- one of the best things about the rules and Barry's scenarions/battle reports is that not everything has to start on the table at the same time --- start with a fraction of the forces of the tables and have reserves/reinforcements show up at various points of the game.

[Gunfreak]

Well I think the rules say he had a battle of almost 800 figures on a 4x6 table, THATS ALOT of figures in 28mm on that small a table.

[quindia]

A 6x8' table would be better for 28mm, but with the exception of Historicon, ALL of the games I've played have been on 4x6' tables Heck, I've played games, albeit small ones - http://quindiastudios.blogspot.com/2010 ... mpire.html - on a 4x4' table). Here are a few suggestions...

1. Limit cavalry and artillery. For games of this size, I use half batteries if I use any artillery at all and cavalry 'detachments' of one or two squadrons.

2. Your scenario is important. Meeting engagements where both sides must march onto the table lend the illusion of a 6' wide table since you're not mucking about with the set-up. If your brigades arrive two or three turns apart, you are also not faced with crowding all of your battalions in one line!

Another tactic which lends itself well to this approach is deploying one army in a static position as the defender and having the attacker march onto the board, again granting the illusion of a wider table.

(Note: March on Columns of Companies... Columns of March take too many MPs to deploy into combat formations at this scale of action).

Again, if you design you're scenario properly, you could play a game on a 4x6' board down the length of the table. This may seem even more restrictive, but Napoleonic armies deployed in depth and actually attacked along a relatively narrow frontage, seeking to gain an advantage into which to send the reserves. You can simulate a small portion of a larger battle, say for an important redoubt or bridge.

I normally play games with 8-12 battalions per side (around 500 models total, I think), ranging in size from 24 to 36 models. Don't limit your choices to laying out your armies in two long lines! You get a much more exciting and fluid battle with some of the suggestions I've made here.

Do I wish I had a larger permanent table set-up? Sure, but you can certainly have fun with R2E on a 4x6' table!

[quindia]

...and 5 feet on the short end doesn't seem like much, when cav got a charge range of 42 inches, that means that if not in round 1, round two will surly mean some cav comes with in charge range.

Just because cavalry CAN charge, doesn't mean they should! Throw a regiment forward unsupported and you will find them quickly disordered and vulnerable even if they manage to catch enemy infantry in line. They might rout one unit, but will likely be shot to pieces from close range by that unit's pals...

[Gunfreak]

All my cav is 12 strong, thats less then two squadrons, just 240 troopers.

Since this is division sized stuff, 1 battery is all that would be used for each side, so 3-4 guns.

All my units are based to maximise my table space, in 15mm, I base 8 figures to the same base as most base 6. same for my 28mm, my 32 figure battalions take only 20cm frontage.

[Anonymous]

... Since this is division sized stuff, 1 battery is all that would be used for each side, so 3-4 guns.

Hi Gunfreak,

I had the same thoughts
Sure I have an a bit larger table available (6' x 12' or even 6' x 15').
But after thinking about the allmost anywhere present "we must cover the complete tablelenght"-player I thought of the depth in which most battleformations in the Napoleonic Wars had been and said 'Go to hell'.

Playing a divisional level game with only 1 brigade on the field and the other part outside, waiting for orders/opportunities. Most of us dont have the space for playing on such large tables like me. But we dont have to cover the h-o-l-e damm front

For Division sizes take into account:
French standard 12 Infantry 1 or 2 batteries
Austrian same size with some variations rarely attached artillery
British somewhere between 7 and 12 Infantry 1 or 2 Batteries
Russian 12 Infantry 3 Batteries up to 36 guns!
Prussia, no Division only large brigades with 9 Infantry units in 3 Regiments and some artillery attached
Most german states of the Rhinebund tried to cope with the french size but fielded mostly 8 Infantry units and 1 or 2 batteries

Mixed Divisions are more or less sience fiction and get only on the tables where special targets are to be reached. Only Austrian Advance Guard is comparable with that, often composed of light cavalry, light Infantry, Jaegers or Grenzer, and horse artillery.

Hope that shed some light on it

Best Wishes,

Günter

[Gunfreak]

The prussians that I'm working on now, did have cav suport in thier infantry brigades, often just one or two squadrons, they also had a foot battery.

So thats 9 battalions, 1 half regiment of hussars and a battery.

The french are harder, they often had 3 brigades, in 1805-1807 the 13th legere had it's own brigade of just a 2 battalion regiment, and 2 4 battalion brigades, so thats 10 battalions, a foot battery, and then added cav suport.

[Anonymous]

Hi Gunfreak,

Now things get shape

The Prussians your are go to make are 1813-1815 so that kind of deployment makes sense. Barry included special rules for Prussian divisionlike Brigades.
A French formation of that timeperiod looks like 12 - 18 Infantry units and 2 or 3 batteries. French or Russians are far from what they were before 1812. The Prussians started from scrap. Reliable units where only the Fusilier Regiment in the Brigade(my opinion).

If you look at the Time from 1805 to 1812 you can see that the French Divisions were growing larger and larger. 1806 a Division had 6 to 9 Batallions, 1809 they had grown to 10 or 12. 1812 Davouts 1st Corps had 4 Divisions of 12 Batallions each. 1 Regiment of 6 Batallions formed one brigade .

The differnce starts when you are using historical OOB's instead of standard layouts. My proposal is to pick a certain corps on each side, use their strenght and attach to the fight what is at hand. Your Prussians may be from Bülows II. Corps. Do what the brave man did, pick out all attached squadrons of his Corps and let them work together at a certain point on a certain target. Think of the table not as 4'x7' but by 7'x4'. Let them use the depth to deploy. Or come from the lower left corner and fight you through to the upper right corner. Only some possible fights.

I hope you dont intend to let your Prussians fight against 1805-07 Elite French troops which, at that timeperiod, had no worthy foe to fear because they were the most sucessfull fightingforce on the battlefield.
Which almost all European Nations had to learn the hard way, Austerlitz, Jena, Auerstaedt, Friedland, Eylau to name a few.

Sorry, I got carried away

Cheers

Günter

[Gunfreak]

The french are made to be 1809-1814 period, the stats can be changed, but the uniforms are based on that period, 1813 was probebly the grand amrees worst year, going better i 1814, but by that time the prussians also got better. by 1815 the french were probebly up to 1812 standards again(exept for the cav)

If you read from leipzig the prussians were pound for pound just as good as the best of the french, landwehr fought against the marine artilleriest, which there probebly the best regular infantry france had at this time. and came out the victor.

My hussars are 1 leib death head and so they are gonna be superior to the french, but the french got two cav regiments so it will be fun to see.