Late French Rev War - R2E factors

[Friedrich August I.]

Barry,

That is very interesting, I keep that all in mind As long as I can field oneday my Saxon 8 "bumblebees" 4-pdr Regimental Batteries.

Napoleon said:
"We should supply our infantry with Regimental guns because of their lesser moralgrades compared to Soldiers in the Years before!" Almost all French-Allied Nations followed that doctrine and issued Guns to support their infantry.

In my opinion a 3rd of a batteries ammo supply should do the job. Only the movement should be allowed to be that of ordinary foot artillery and not only manhandling. The Artillerycrew of the Westphaliens came out of the parent Regiment, that of the Saxons were professional gunners from the Artillery Regiment. So their maybe some difference in the quality of such units.

Günter

[18th Century Guy]

All this discussion around battalion guns for the Revolutionary period got Bill and myself thinking. Most everyone has read somewhere that during this period the usual attachment to a battalion was a 3#or 4# gun with the occasional 6# gun tossed in some where. Some battalions may have had 2 of these guns attached. So,

* Are these guns included with the count of overall artillery listed in the OOBs or were they left off because they were attached or not considered real artillery but only support weapons?
* Were battalions guns grouped together into a larger brigade type of battery by ANY side prior to the idea of a grand battery?
* Were battalions guns kept in a pool ready to be used where ever they were needed (again, on ANY side)?

I just wanted to toss these questions out to have a discussion and see if anyone has some information about this. So far Bill and I don't have any conclusive evidence to answer these questions but only some hearsay from books that talk about small batteries showing up to help stablize a flank. But where did those guns come from? Were they part of a brigade reserve or battalions guns that were close by which were used as an emergency?

My goal is to have enough evidence/information to be able to wisely allow the use of these little guns without having a mobile artillery park at the ready for a player to use on a whim.

[Friedrich August I.]

Hi Greg and Bill

As a Saxon by choice I can only refer to them as most of what I know are from Saxon and prussian sources like Artillery Manuals and Army Organisation Charts.

Saxon Regimental Artillery was first introduced in 7YW when 2 guns were attached to each Line Infantry and Grenadier Battalion.
Within the 7YW all of this guns were lost to the anexion of Saxon by the Prussians. While Saxon units fought alongside with the French against Prussian/Hannoverian Armies the got french Battalion guns attached.
After the 7YW the Saxon gave them back and rethought their Artillery and invented the M1766 System to straightining and modernise the used guns.
Since that time the Regimental "Battery" was allways a fixed part of the Saxon Army, disbanded only once after Jena 1806 because of the losses.
As the Saxons didnt have time enough to rethink the M1766 4pdr-Schnellfeuergeschuetz which they used as their Regimental guns they used them until all of them were lost in Russia. After 1812 they were finaly abandoned.

A Saxon Regimental "Battery" consisted of 4 pieces 4 pdr guns M1766 Schnellfeuergeschuetze, Artillerycrew from the Artilleryregiment 1 Officier and 62 men, 4 horse Limbers, 8 Ammunition Caissons and drivers from the Train Battallion.

These guns were only used to support the regiments. They were never grouped together to form brigade batteries, they marched with the Infantry Regiments they were attached to and they weren't removed until the war has ended when they got back to the Zeughaus in Dresden where all the Field Artillery were kept, approx. 300 Cannons of all kind.
The Saxons had 16 Foot Batteries, they had Personal for it but lacking the horse flesh to put them all in the field. 13x6pdr Batteries and 3x 12pdr batteries. The 16 batteries were formed in 4 groups of 4 companies each, one was ment to be in reserve and the remaining 12 were grouped 3x4 into the Mobil Division Artillery parks. Each park has had 4 field battieries, 3x6pdr and 1x12pdr batteries.

The informations are from Rouveroy, Scharnhorst, Nafziger, The Festung Königstein, The Dresden Hauptzeughaus and Jörg Titze, who started to write about the Saxons while Germany was still split in two.

Hope that makes sence...

Günter
(sorry I had to edit this heavly because i wrote it before I went to my job)

[Rob Herrick]

Since I have 1806/1809 Saxons on the painting table . . .

Were the "regimental" batteries distributed as traditional battalion guns (IE, two per battalion), or was the regimental organization tactical and not just administrative in the Saxon Army?

[Friedrich August I.]

Since I have 1806/1809 Saxons on the painting table . . .

Were the "regimental" batteries distributed as traditional battalion guns (IE, two per battalion), or was the regimental organization tactical and not just administrative in the Saxon Army?

Rob,

It was a tactical formation since the 1766 System was invented.
"Each 2 Battallion Infantry Regiment should have a 4 gun Regimental Battery and any Grenadier Battallion should have 2 guns."
All of them were 4pdr-Schnellfeuergeschuetze, their Train was to move with that of the Infantry they were attached to.
After 1806 and the reorganisation 1810 only the Regimental Batteries of the Infantry Regiments remained in the Artillery establishment.

Günter

[Rob Herrick]

Rob,

It was a tactical formation since the 1766 System was invented.
"Each 2 Battallion Infantry Regiment should have a 4 gun Regimental Battery and any Grenadier Battallion should have 2 guns."
All of them were 4pdr-Schnellfeuergeschuetze, their Train was to move with that of the Infantry they were attached to.
After 1806 and the reorganisation 1810 only the Regimental Batteries of the Infantry Regiments remained in the Artillery establishment.

Günter

So the regimental battery is essentially a third maneuver element to the regiment? Did the grenadiers keep their two gun battery as part of their battalion, or were additional "regimental batteries" formed?

[Friedrich August I.]

So the regimental battery is essentially a third maneuver element to the regiment? Did the grenadiers keep their two gun battery as part of their battalion, or were additional "regimental batteries" formed?

Rob,

The Grenadiers kept their 2 guns until 1806. After Jena these were never attached to them mostly because of the losses the Saxon Artillery suffered while "in touch" with the Prussians. Their is no evidence that they formed up their two guns to any larger formation. A picture I have found in the book of Dr. Stephen Summerfield 'Saxon Artillery 1733-1827' shows the Grenadier Battalion Winkel with one of his 4-pdrs at Jena.

Until the great Reorganisation 1810 Guns were distributed by the Hauptzeughaus in Dresden while the drawing horses were required from the the rural people and the trainpersonal were alltogether civilians.

Günter

[obriendavid]

Very interesting stuff Gunter, I am also keen to see Stephan Summervilles book on the artillery as well as all his other books.
Cheers
Dave