Prussian questions

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custosarmorum
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Prussian questions

Post by custosarmorum » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:48 pm

With the advent of the new Perry Prussians to supplement the lovely Calpe range I have been toying with the idea of doing a Prussian Brigade. I reviewed the Prussian Command rules (p. 30) in RtE and have a couple of questions for those of you who are veteran players both of the Prussians and RtE in general.

I understand that the brigade counts as division in most other armies and each three battalion regiment counts as a brigade (I'll us the lower case for the three battalion formation) for command purposes. I also understand that the Brigade might have a few specialist light infantry detachments as well as a battery and a cavalry regiment (and, indeed perhaps even grenadier battalion in the 1813 campaign).

Now I understand the the specialist light infantry detachments are part of one of the individual brigades so one or more brigades might be of three battalion with a 4-8 figure detachment. I can also see the artillery, perhaps by half-batteries, being attached as well as the grenadiers if present. But what about the cavalry? In my experience attaching a cavalry unit to an infantry brigade does not work well as the cavalry can quickly get out of command (I have only played four of five times--including a go at the sample scenario in the rulebook).

So, how is the cavalry regiment handled? If not part of one of the brigades it cannot use any of the brigades' MPs since the rules say that each brigades' MPs are for that brigade only and may not be shared? Also, what orders do the cavalry follow if not part of a brigade?

Last question is do Prussian players find a three unit brigade to be a bit more fragile than the more common four to five unit brigade?

I look forward to your answers and insights on the Prussians.

Mike
Last edited by custosarmorum on Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by barr7430 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:32 am

Great questions Mike and I will answer them in detail when I get home from CRISIS ANTWERP.

Here is a little to be going on with. The cavalry can be easily covered by making them an independent unit. This means the need to work from the MPs of the Brigade but are not restricted by support rules or the general Brigade/brigade orders. Half batteries I think would be OK.

The main news is that Martin Kelly of Befreiungskriege 1813 fame has completed a paper for me which I have. It is a special insight into organization and use of the Prussians with R2E and I will make it into a downloadable pdf(with Clarence's help I hope) soon.

Hope this is good news for all you Preussers!
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by john_de_courcy » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:48 am

Good news Barry,

I have a box of 32 Calpe Prussian Musketeer minis, relevant flags and uniform plate.. all ready to paint my first infantry battalion.

Building a Prussian Napoleonic army is one of my long term projects which is on hold due to deciding to start the warfare miniatures first, so not sure when I will get round to starting the Naps!.

I haven't even decided on a rule set yet, so keeping R2E in mind.
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by obriendavid » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:20 pm

The Prussians/Germans stuck with this cavalry support in their brigades right up to WW1 so it must have worked but I think they mainly used them as recce troops and not full combat troops that most wargamers, me included, want to use them for on the wargames table. I have always found that they attack unsupported and are often outnumbered with the results you would expect. The secret is to try and hold onto them as long as possible then use them to support your infantry attacks especially as their speed allows them to get round enemies flanks/rears.
Hope this helps?
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by custosarmorum » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:48 pm

Barry and Dave,

Thanks for the replies! I have a couple of points of clarification but will wait for your response and will check out Befreiungskrieg blog. I think my questions relate more to game mechanics than anything else.

Thanks again!

Mike
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by msk » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:16 pm

Mike,

This looks like a good moment to jump in and point you at the relevant postings in my blog. A good place to start is here:

http://befreiungskriege.wordpress.com/2 ... part-five/

Which was the fifth (and so far final - but you never know) instalment is a series of postings I wrote on just the subjects you're enquiring about. There are links from that posting to all the other four instalments.

Barry correctly remembers that I've written a short paper for him on the subject and I'm looking forward to Clarence's PDF embellishment of it. Barry/Clarence - I'm sure I could persuade Peter Fitzgerald to let us use some photos of his painted units to illustrate the PDF.

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Re: Prussian questions

Post by Ben Waterhouse » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:01 am

Wow, that's useful Martin; he says jumping in.
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by barr7430 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:38 am

I know the saintly and patient Martin thinks I have forgotten about his paper(I haven't) :wink: but I have been dealing with some small matters over the last few months as some may have noticed :roll:
The very subject in question was discussed by David Imrie and I :roll: only on Saturday! He has some new beautifully painted Prussians which will be photographed for the pdf. I have archive photos of Ade Howe's collection partly painted by he and I. I also have photos of Kevin Calder's wonderful Calpe collection. If PF wants to fling in a few shots - cool. It will be published as a pdf. I just need to deal with the small matter of informing Mr Harrison... his to do list is getting longer than the flight deck of the Enterprise!
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by msk » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:24 pm

Hi Barry - don't worry, I know you and (especially) Clarence have had other fish to fry. Now that you've sanctified me, it's becoming of my new status to continue to wait patiently.

Can't wait to see DI's new Prussians...
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by custosarmorum » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:51 am

Martin and Barry,

I look forward to seeing the Prussian PDF. In the interim, I have read Martin's posts on the Befreiungskriege site. But I still have a couple of questions, more of a game mechanics nature, regarding the allotment of MPs; to wit, if the cavalry and artillery are under the Brigade (i.e., divisional) commander, where to they get their MP from? In the RtE it seems to say that a 3 battalion brigade's MPs may only be used as by those three battalions, and, if I remember, a divisional commander (as opposed to a C-in-C) can only generate a maximum of 2 MPs. Also, how are orders handled, do they get brigade orders or merely single unit orders?

I hope this makes sense...

Thanks!

Mike
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by barr7430 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:02 am

Single unit orders from the Brigade(Divisional commander's allotment) They act independently and ignore the Support rules. They should however try and act in concert with the general mission of their Brigade (Division in any other army!)

Hope this clarifies Mike
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Re: Prussian questions

Post by custosarmorum » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:37 am

Thanks, Barry. That does help.

Mike
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