CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Questions, chat, feedback and developments relating to REPUBLIC TO EMPIRE... Wargaming the wars of Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Friedrich August I.
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:18 am

Ok Mr. Dob's,

You picked my part of casualtie counting out of the posting... I dont see a problem with that as the Rooster goes for figures. Remove 2, 3, 4, or 5 figures from the Battery Strength when counterbattery fire hits the guns.
You only have to make a difference between hit by roundshot or small arms. Thats it.
I must admit I never played RtE so far and I see a hard weekend in Derby coming up for me but that point is well thought through and wouldnt change the course of RtE or even the fluidness of the game.

Hm,... you have 30 figures fighting in a 12pdr foot battery :roll: :shock: :?: 600 men, huh? You must have drawn 400 men from nearby infantry to help to manouvre the guns :!: That must have been a decent mud h-o-l-e where they fought :wink:

....artistic license....

A good morning and a fine day to every sleepy out there :D

Günter
Last edited by Friedrich August I. on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:26 am

Btw., Barry, you old Desert Fox!
I see how you do this all the times :wink:
Stirring the Hornets nest and sitting back, waiting and let the argues to those who might stick their neck out(dont know if that is correct written).
In that case a Russian 12pdr player and those who dont have such a large "stick" to beat.

You are handling it like a good general. I draw my hat before you 8)
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by barr7430 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:57 am

I will upload the finished amendments shortly, well, the extract from FOUR EMPIRES that directly relates to Republic to Empire. The additional Crimean rules will of course not be relevant to this thread 8)

DESSERT FAUX ( :lol: )
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by Friedrich August I. » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:40 pm

barr7430 wrote:I will upload the finished amendments shortly, well, the extract from FOUR EMPIRES that directly relates to Republic to Empire. The additional Crimean rules will of course not be relevant to this thread 8)

DESSERT FAUX ( :lol: )
Dear Faux(pas),

Let's see where your constructive mind will lead us :wink:
Also I 'm quite sure that my input wont change anything... :?

Like a joke a Dwarf tells in WoW:
I have no drinking problem. I drink, I get drunk, I fall down, no Problem!

Cheers
Günter
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by barr7430 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:59 pm

I am glad you appreciate my poor wordplay jokes Gunter.... I defintely see myself as the 'Pudding Mistake' :wink:
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by obriendavid » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:38 pm

Friedrich August I. wrote: Also I 'm quite sure that my input wont change anything... :?
Günter
All input is greatly appreciated even if it isn't used right away all good ideas are remembered and you might be surprised this time. :wink:
Cheers
Dave
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by barr7430 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:54 pm

OK HERE IT IS IN BRIEF. THIS IS THE NEW ARTILLERY MANAGEMENT MECHANISM FOR STRENGTH, CASUALTIES AND COMBAT. FIRING IS AS BEFORE

Battery strength
The overall strength of a battery is calculated by each model gun, complete crew and limber equalling 1 ‘model’. A four gun battery will have 4 guns + 4 crews + 4 limbers = a strength of 12 models. A six gun battery will have 6 guns + 6 crews + 6 limbers = 18 model strength. Although several operating principles remain unchanged, how a battery receives casualties is fundamentally different from Republic to Empire. This definition replaces that of the original rule book.

Example roster sheet template for a 6pdr battery of three gun models and 1 howitzer model. Each shaded box represents one of the 12 strength points of the battery.

Unit: 6e Artillery Coy Quality: Drilled Strength: 12
gun 6pdr 6pdr 6pdr howitzer
crew 1 2 3 4
limber 1 2 3 4

Artillery as a target

Hits
Hits are still scored by throwing 4, 5 or 6 on a normal D6.
Counter battery fire
When gun batteries take fire from artillery there is a risk that the guns themselves are put out of action as well as crews or limbers. If a battery is hit a score of 4 destroys a limber team, a 5 incapacitates a gun crew and a 6 destroys a gun. Guns which have been positioned in fortifications, built up areas or are not transportable, take scores of 4 or 5 against crew. Guns of calibre greater than 12pdr disregard the first hit per gun in the battery to simulate the larger and more robust construction of heavy pieces.
Small arms fire
When gun batteries take fire from small arms there is risk only to crews or limber teams. If a battery is hit a score of 4 wounds a limber team and a 5 incapacitates a gun crew. A 6 kills a limber team or gun crew on a further 50% throw. Guns positioned in fortifications, built up areas or not transportable, will take any hit against crew.
Casualty effect
Guns without limbers cannot move unless manhandled. Guns without crews can have their crews replaced by infantry or other gunners who currently have no gun. Guns destroyed by artillery fire are permanently out of the game although their crews can be kept as spares or could themselves later become casualties from subsequent fire.

Batteries charged or in close combat
The charge threat options open to batteries which are charged remain the same as detailed on page 85, Republic to Empire. The stand and fire checks detailed on page 89, Republic to Empire remain the same.
If defensive fire failed to stop a charging attacker it is unlikely that gunners would survive contact by close order enemy infantry or cavalry.
The method for calculating defensive capability is simple. Four gun batteries are treated as a single combat group regardless of how many casualties have been taken overall in the game to the point of combat. Six gun batteries are treated as two combat groups. Other modifiers can apply which may increase the overall number of dice thrown. In keeping with the principles of luck, 1 die will always be thrown regardless of how low the modified number of dice is worked out to be. The overall result of these changes will not greatly change the offensive combat capability of batteries from previous mechanics. The main change will be that batteries, even large ones, are much more brittle and unable to indulge in prolonged attritional struggles with superior numbers. This amendment is applicable to the Napoleonic version of the rules.

Battery Refitting
Batteries in defensive positions such as redoubts, earthworks, BUAs need not withdraw to refit. They can refit in situ using the rule as defined on page 74 of Republic to Empire. This amendment is applicable to the Napoleonic version of the rules.
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by Friedrich August I. » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:05 pm

:o I think I will need a full body armor in Derby :shock:
It seem that some of my arguments found a way into Barry's amendments :roll:
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by barr7430 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:49 am

Gunter,

I hope that proves that I am a 'listening' type of guy :wink:

I think the amendments offer a balanced development in R2E and show that the rules are alive and evolving not unused and static.

I am glad to say that sales have endorsed this view 8)
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by Friedrich August I. » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:15 am

barr7430 wrote: Gunter, I hope that proves that I am a 'listening' type of guy :wink:
Barry, it does indeed :D
I am not accustomed with such behavior :oops: :roll:

Thanks Barry
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by Redmenace » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:06 am

When gun batteries take fire from small arms there is risk only to crews or limber teams. If a battery is hit a score of 4 wounds a limber team and a 5 incapacitates a gun crew. A 6 kills a limber team or gun crew on a further 50% throw
I think you are making way to complicated.

Whats the difference between a wounded limber team and a killed one, same thing with incapacitated gun crew/killed one as I can't see any diffrence?
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:50 am

Redmenace wrote:
When gun batteries take fire from small arms there is risk only to crews or limber teams. If a battery is hit a score of 4 wounds a limber team and a 5 incapacitates a gun crew. A 6 kills a limber team or gun crew on a further 50% throw
I think you are making way to complicated.

Whats the difference between a wounded limber team and a killed one, same thing with incapacitated gun crew/killed one as I can't see any diffrence?
No difference. It was only a choosing of different words for the same result.
It's all losses. We played it at Derby and it worked well.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by Redmenace » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:46 pm

Ok then it makes sense, I think that might be the only problem I have with R2E is that rules are sometimes written unnecessary convoluted.

I like this amendment, as I have felt in our test games that cannon battery's can take sustain to much damage.

Now I only hope for a repost of the individual order errata that got lost after the hacker attack.
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by barr7430 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:05 am

REPOSTED AND APPEARS AS IN THIS FORUM AS OFFICIAL AMENDMENTS TO ARTILLERY 2012
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Re: CAT AND PIGEONS COMES TO MIND

Post by 14th Brooklyn » Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:41 am

I am fine with rule change per se, but I have one question regarding the number of models stated in the amendment:

Previously one model represented two guns. You could have as many crew on the bases as you liked and the artillery park took up and area twice as deep as the guns behind it.

Is the number of models in the amendment meant as:

A) the actual Number of models on the table.

B) the number of boxes on a virtual tally sheet that you need to cross off.

I hope it is not version A since it would make the area occupied by a battery extremely large!

Cheers,

Burkhard
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