Historically Inspiring - An Incident in the Rebellion

[yar68]

Another in my series about Historically Inspiring paintings and pictures, this famous painting will take you back to 1746.


http://onelover-ray.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... nt-in.html

[obriendavid]

Ray, there was no such thing as an 'English' army at Culloden. The Government army was about 60% full of Scottish troops fighting against the Highland rebels. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking it was a Scotland v England competition, whereas most of the Scots in the Government army were Lowlanders who were happy to give the Catholic Highlanders a good kicking for religious reasons and for past events of Highland Clans raiding down in the Lowlands.
Cheers
Dave

[Captain of Dragoons]

I always wondered why the grenadiers are on the left flank of regiment

[yar68]

I know in the painting the Grenadiers are on the left but I always thought they would line up on the right of a line, I'm not 100% sure why, but its got something to do with company seniority, perhaps it stems back from medieval times when the right side of a unit was the unshielded side, so the biggest and strongest were placed on the right???
The painting depicts the English unit Barrels which was on the extreme left flank of the Hanoverian army the grenadiers were maybe switched to the left as this was the weakest place in their line.
I know during the Battle of Culloden, the Scots argued about who was going to fight on the right hand side of the Jacobite line, the McDonald's were a little upset about being placed on the left of the line rather than on the place of honour on the right.
On the other hand perhaps the artist just got it wrong???

[obriendavid]

I know in the painting the Grenadiers are on the left but I always thought they would line up on the right of a line, On the other hand perhaps the artist just got it wrong???

It could just be that with artistic licence the artist thought the grenadiers were more interesting for uniform detail and just decided to put them in this place because it made his painting more interesting.
Cheers
Dave

[Captain of Dragoons]

Oops

I meant to say on the left in that picture

[Ronan the Librarian]

Regarding the position of the grenadier company in the painting, there are two possible explanations as to why it is in the "wrong" place.

1) During this period, whilst the grenadier company took the "post of honour" on the extreme right flank when a battalion was on parade, in battle the grenadier company tended to be split into two platoons, which would take post at opposite ends of the battalion line. This meant that both flanks - the most vulnerable point of an infantry unit in the time of linear warfare - were guarded by the biggest, strongest and most reliable men. For this reason, the grenadiers were not part of the scheme of "firings" into which the eight battalion (or "hat") companies were divided for the purposes of platoon fire. They remained loaded as a reserve for emergencies.

2) In this particular action, I believe that Barrel's regiment was on the extreme left of the Government's front line. For this reason (and perhaps also because many of the Government units were considerably under strength), it is possible that the entire grenadier company may have been placed on the left of the battalion, rather than the more usual split.

It is worth noting that grenadier companies tended to be kept at full strength on campaign, even when the "hat" companies were depleted.

RtL

[flags_of_war]

Ray, there was no such thing as an 'English' army at Culloden. The Government army was about 60% full of Scottish troops fighting against the Highland rebels. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking it was a Scotland v England competition, whereas most of the Scots in the Government army were Lowlanders who were happy to give the Catholic Highlanders a good kicking for religious reasons and for past events of Highland Clans raiding down in the Lowlands.
Cheers
Dave

Far too many Scots romanticise about this notion of Scotland fighting England. They get even more Confussed when you tell them the Stuarts wanted a United Kingdom

[markdo]

Dave,
I'm sorry, but I calculate the number of Scottish fighting against Prince Charlie at Culloden as around 1/4, there being 16 regts as far as I recall without going up to the cold attic, 4 of which were Scottish.The Argyll Militia was Scottish too,obviously, but then there were 3 English dragoon regts to take into account. Unless you've seen a breakdown of where the English regts recruits came from, of course. I accept that there were Scots in all regts, just as there are now, but I doubt if they were present in large nos.

Mark

[j1mwallace]

Charley never really got very much support from the Scots , never mind English Jacobite supporters. The idea of a Jacobite claimant to the throne was pretty much a dead duck long before he made his efforts.
It is surprising how many folks think that Culloden was Scos v English. I had a friend from the USA over a few years ago who wanted to see where his ancestors fought. His relative was in Barrels. Boy was he disappointed.
Holly facts as ever

[Graf Bretlach]

Grenadiers on the left is correct if the regiment is the extreme left flank, this also applies to brigade seniority, where a left flank brigade would have the senior regiment on the left and next senior on the right, grenadier on both flanks would be parades or if the battalion was operating independently.
if you look at contemporary orders of battle this is nearly always the case for the first half of the 18th C. Brits/French/imperials everyone.

at Culloden they are often termed Hanoverian or government forces against Stuart or rebel forces, i think its only in more modern times that it has changes to English v Scots