Why not take St. Petersburg?

Conflict between the Swedes and their various neighbours between 1670s and 1721. Including topics on Danes, Saxons, Saxon-Polish, Russians and anyone else the boys in blue were mixing it with!
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Gunfreak
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Why not take St. Petersburg?

Post by Gunfreak » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:51 pm

Why didn't Karl XII go for that city?
He might not have won the war (that he believed he would by taking Moscow)
But it's a hell of a lot closer to Swedish supply bases. It would let Karl keep an eye Finland.
And it would have been a huge moral victory to simply raise every single building in Peters precious city.
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Friedrich August I.
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Re: Why not take St. Petersburg?

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:21 pm

Gunfreak wrote:Why didn't Karl XII go for that city?
He might not have won the war (that he believed he would by taking Moscow)
But it's a hell of a lot closer to Swedish supply bases. It would let Karl keep an eye Finland.
And it would have been a huge moral victory to simply raise every single building in Peters precious city.
Because St. Petersburg wasnt even there? The City was founded 1703.
Only in 1712 St. Petersburg became the seat of the Government.
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"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: Why not take St. Petersburg?

Post by Gunfreak » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:53 pm

I assume some of it was there in 1707 when Karl started his invasion of Russia?
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Friedrich August I.
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Re: Why not take St. Petersburg?

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:54 pm

Gunfreak wrote:I assume some of it was there in 1707 when Karl started his invasion of Russia?
At this time it was setup in no time out of a huge swampy area at the cost of 10.000s of serf lives. It consisted only of two fortresses and a lot of unfinished building. Not before 1712 was there room to take over the role of capital of Imperial Russia from Moscow.

Picture of St. Petersburg area before 1698
http://expositions.nlr.ru/eng/ex_map/mo ... ges/02.jpg

It took several Years to finish the Pete and Paul Fortresses who had to provide cover and security for the newly founded City.
History of the Fortress
http://www.saint-petersburg.com/museums ... t-history/
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: Why not take St. Petersburg?

Post by Dfogleman2 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:20 am

It might be a good question to ask why he did not attempt to recapture this area, city or no city, since it was formerly ruled by Sweden?

I haven’t looked this up, but my guess is that he felt that this would not defeat the Russians and they could continue to fight. If, however, he was able to defeat the Russians in their heartland, the Russian holdings near the Baltic would naturally fall to Sweden.
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Re: Why not take St. Petersburg?

Post by barr7430 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:33 pm

great contribution Gunter!
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Re: Why not take St. Petersburg?

Post by Ronan the Librarian » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:08 pm

For those who have not yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend Lucy Worsley's "Empire of the Tsars" (currently available on BBC iPlayer) which covers the reign of Peter the Great in episode 1, including the founding of St Petersburg.
Ssshhhhh!!!!!
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