Converged Grenadiers within the Russian Army

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Anonymous

Converged Grenadiers within the Russian Army

Post by Anonymous » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:57 am

I have a few questions to the Russians here:

How does a Converged Grenadier unit look like? Unit size or how many "companies" should it include?
What about the mixed composure of Grenadiers, Carabiniers and Tirailleurs?

Any help appreciated

Günter
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Post by Greystreak » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:23 am

Hi Günter,

It depends which specific period we are concerned with, and the 'unit size' you're referring to, however for the post-1810 period, Mark Conrad's translation of Viskovatov (http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info ... tore.htm#1) summarizes as follows, which may help, particularly at number '8' below:

"12 October 1810– Regiments of Army infantry were ordered to make the following changes in their organization:
1.) In each Grenadier regiment (except the Life-Grenadiers), instead of one Grenadier and two Fusilier battalions, there were to be three Fusilier battalions, of one Grenadier and three Fusilier companies.
2.) In each Musketeer regiment, instead of one Grenadier and two Musketeer battalions, there were to be three Musketeer battalions, of one Grenadier and three Musketeer companies.
3.) In each Jäger regiment the battalions were to consist of one Grenadier and three Musketeer companies.
4.) In each Fusilier, Musketeer, and Jäger battalion, the senior, or Grenadier, company was to be made up of grenadiers and marksmen [strelki], so that the grenadiers are in the first platoon [vzvod] and marksmen in the second.
5.) When regiments are in battle formation, the 1st, or Grenadier, platoon of the Grenadier company was to deploy on the right flank of its battalion, while the 2nd, or Marksmen [Strelkovyi] platoon, was to be on the left.
6.) During wartime, when regiments move out on campaign, the Fusilier, Musketeer, and Jäger companies of the second battalions, having been used to fill up the other two battalions, were to remain in their quarters and were to be termed Replacement [Zapasnyi] battalions.
7.) The Grenadier companies of second battalions were to set out on campaign with the first and third battalions.
8.) When all six regiments of a division were united together, the Grenadier companies of their second battalions were to form for it two Combined Grenadier Battalions [Svodnye Grenaderskie bataliony], each of three companies.
9.) In each Corps [Korpus], the Combined Grenadier Battalions were to form a Combined Grenadier Brigade [Svodnaya Grenaderskaya brigada] and be the Reserve [Rezerv] of this Corps.
10.) In an Army [Armiya], the Combined Grenadier Brigades of its Corps were to form a Combined Grenadier Division [Svodnaya Grenaderskaya diviziya] and be its Reserve."

Hope that helps! :)
Bryce
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:40 am

Bryce,

Thank You for that, it shed some light on it :D

The Time would be 1812, the troops 3rd Army of the West/Tormassov, 18th Division, the units the Converged Grenadiers of the 9th, 15th and 18th Division.

Reading your answer correct they should be 6 x 3 companies of the 2nd or reserve batallions of the regiments within the mentioned divisions.

Thank You for your help

Günter
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Post by Greystreak » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:14 pm

You have it exactly right, Günter; glad to have been of service. :D
Bryce
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Post by Anonymous » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:48 am

Hi Bryce,

one more question has occurd while counting for the colors of the Infantry Regiments. How many and eventually which kind of them were in use by the Musketeer Regiments?
Most pictures show the Batallions have 2 Colors. Does this be suitable for all the Batallions, 1st and 3rd, of the Musketeer Regiments?
So far I know only of 3 of the Regiments the possible type of color but the Kostroma Regiment is in question.

The Units of the 18th Division, 3rd Army of the West, are:

18th Division – Prince Tchervatov
Brigade – Bernardos
1st Battalion./Tambov Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion/ Tambov Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion/Vladimir Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion./Vladimir Infantry Regiment
Brigade – Prince Khowanski
1st Battalion./Dnieper Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion./Dnieper Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion./Kostroma Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion./Kostroma Infantry Regiment
Brigade ?
1st Battalion./28th Jager Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion./28th Jager Infantry Regiment
1st Battalion./32nd Jager Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion./ 32nd Jager Infantry Regiment
Brigade ?
Converged Grenadiers Of The 9th Division
Converged Grenadiers Of The 15th Division
Converged Grenadiers Of The 18th Division
Brigade ?
Pavlograd Hussar Regiment
Division Artillery ?
Position Battery #18
Light Battery #34
Light Battery #35
Horse Battery #11

Any Suggestions?

Best Wishes

Günter
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Post by Greystreak » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:27 pm

Hi Günter,

For 1812 and later, two colours per battalion of regular 'Infantry' (e.g., Musketeers & Grenadiers): 1st battalion gets one 'white' flag and a 'coloured' flag, the 2nd & 3rd battalions carry two 'coloured' flags. Jägers and 'Converged' Grenadiers did not carry flags, nor did Hussar regiments carry flags on active service (though some received them as special awards for distinguished service). The Guard infantry are more complex, but thankfully you are not building those! :D

White flags (the colonel's or Tsar's colour) take precendence over 'coloured' flags (regimental colour) when mounting your troops on your bases--e.g., the white flag to the 'right', when viewed from behind the unit, facing forward; coloured flag to the 'left'.

Hope that helps!

Bryce
Bryce
Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Bryce,

Thank You for the informations, I think they will be very usefull in particular because I ordered the flags for the Regiments 10 minutes ago :D

Cheers

Günter
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