Saxon artillery

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obriendavid
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Saxon artillery

Post by obriendavid » Wed May 11, 2011 7:26 pm

This is a question for Gunter (our Saxon expert) or anyone else that can help.

In his booklet The Saxon Army 1810-13 Howard Giles states that the carriages of their artillery was painted grey with metal parts painted yellow. Does anyone know if the battalion guns which were actually Austrian guns would be painted in Saxon colours or left in Austrian colours? Also does anyone know what shade of yellow the metal parts were painted?

A quick answer would be appreciated as I want to get one painted up for our game on Sunday.
Cheers
Dave
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Post by toggy » Wed May 11, 2011 8:12 pm

Dave

Don't know if this helps : http://www.napoleon-online.de/Augsburger_Tafel49.jpg


Bob
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Post by kiwipeterh » Wed May 11, 2011 8:17 pm

Dave

I got this from Peter Fitzgerald (Mr Calpe Miniatures) re the Saxon artillery ...

"The woodwork on the guns was treated wood. The finished item did look black to the eye but was not paint; more of a wood treatment really (tar based I think) - so your off black will probably be about right. Don’t use brown, this would be wrong.

The fittings on the field guns were bronze –advanced for the time as they did not rust. They were left unpolished in the field and tarnished to a yellow colour fairly quickly, hence the idea that they were painted in yellow ochre. The best way to show this colour is to use brass mixed with Naples yellow this gives you a metallic look but with a dull patina."

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Friedrich August I.
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Re: Saxon artillery

Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu May 12, 2011 5:42 am

obriendavid wrote:This is a question for Gunter (our Saxon expert) or anyone else that can help.

In his booklet The Saxon Army 1810-13 Howard Giles states that the carriages of their artillery was painted grey with metal parts painted yellow. Does anyone know if the battalion guns which were actually Austrian guns would be painted in Saxon colours or left in Austrian colours? Also does anyone know what shade of yellow the metal parts were painted?

A quick answer would be appreciated as I want to get one painted up for our game on Sunday.
Cheers
Dave
Hi Dave,

Sorry for the late reply.

Saxon Artillery was painted almost black resembling the colors of the coat of arms of the Saxon Rulers. Almost black Woodwork(charcoal and tar) and a yellow color(iron preserving color) for the Iron work. Stephen Summerfield stated it in error as made of bronze instead of iron but after some writings with a member of the historical staff of the Fortress Königstein this error was cleared out.

http://www.festung-koenigstein.de/museum/de/index.php

There you will find pics of the guns.

http://www.festung-koenigstein.de/tl_fi ... ie-01D.jpg

The regimental guns were ALL of Saxon origin M1766 Geschwindgeschuetz and light 4 pdr with a unique design that leaded Austria to built their "Wurst"- Cannon

Btw. Same error from Peter F. of CALPE as he and Dr. Summerfield worked together but I posted that allready.

More on this matter today

Best Wishes

Günter
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Post by kiwipeterh » Thu May 12, 2011 7:54 am

Thanks for the update Günter. A nice picture ... if a somewhat garish colour scheme! :lol:

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Post by PaulMc » Thu May 12, 2011 10:17 am

Dear Lord! Bumblebee artillery!!! :lol:
"We shall attack across the minefield, under cover of daylight!"
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Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu May 12, 2011 12:36 pm

kiwipeterh wrote:Thanks for the update Günter. A nice picture ... if a somewhat garish colour scheme! :lol:

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Hi Peter,

The Colors are as told the scheme of the yellow and black stripes of the Saxon Ruler House of the Wettiners. After 1816 the colors changed to green white and so the gun carriges changed to green.

One of the reasons for the wrong stated metal on the guns is the surviving 12pdr in the Armymuseum of Copenhagen in Denmark. It contains a 12pdr with bronze fittings. One should consider that this gun originates M1810. It has been captured in the Danish German War 1846. The gunbarrel is of 1810 which tells something about the quality of the material used, the iron fittings have been replaced with bronze.

But I remember that russian guns changed their colors after the gender of the ruler! Under Peter the Great the color was green while under Elizabeth Petrovna the turned out to be red.

PaulMc

The guns shown are five 24 pounders, made between 1688 to 1810(different barrels), 5 tons each.

Hope that sheds some light on it.
Thanks that you consider me to be an expert on Saxons :D

Best Wishes

Günter
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: Saxon artillery

Post by obriendavid » Thu May 12, 2011 12:43 pm

[quote="Friedrich August I The regimental guns were ALL of Saxon origin M1766 Geschwindgeschuetz and light 4 pdr with a unique design that leaded Austria to built their "Wurst"- Cannon
Günter[/quote]

Thanks chaps for all the feedback, I found some interesting sites after posting my question, especially extracts from Stephen Summerfields book on the Saxon Artillery. I was surprised at you saying the 4pdrs were actually Saxon guns as most accounts mention them as being ones taken from the Austrians after the Wagram campaign.
So bumblebee colour it is.
Cheers
Dave
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Re: Saxon artillery

Post by Friedrich August I. » Thu May 12, 2011 1:48 pm

obriendavid wrote:.......... I was surprised at you saying the 4pdrs were actually Saxon guns as most accounts mention them as being ones taken from the Austrians after the Wagram campaign....
Dave,

The Saxons produced their own artillery since the time of August the Strong.
They invented from time to time their own unique design after some war expiriences, in this case the System M1766 after the SYW. They did this to lower the numbers of different guns sizes from 18 to 7.
The M1766 produced a 6pdr Granatestueck a gunhowitzer like the unicorns that fired early sorts of shells/shrapnels, the 4pdr Geschwindgeschutz, the 8pdr, 12pdr, 8pdr Howitzer, 18 and 24pdr field canons and some Mortars.
As the Saxons didnt have another gun at hand they used the 4dr M1766 for their Regimental guns and went with 50 pieces of them in the 1806 and 1809 campaigns. After that they were removed from service only to be distributed again in 1812. The reason for the name Geschwindgeschutz was the use of a crank instead of the wooden block to elevate the gunbarrel.

As you see they didnt need foreign guns and they produced more than their army could use.

Best Wishes,

Günter
Last edited by Friedrich August I. on Thu May 12, 2011 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Post by obriendavid » Thu May 12, 2011 1:59 pm

I knew I could depend on you Gunter :D
I was beginning to be sceptical about them being Austrian guns because when you check up on Austrian guns they didn't have 4pdrs.
Once again thanks for your help.
Cheers
Dave
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Post by obriendavid » Thu May 12, 2011 2:02 pm

toggy wrote:Dave

Don't know if this helps : http://www.napoleon-online.de/Augsburger_Tafel49.jpg


Bob
Thanks for that Bob, I had seen that pic but wanted to check for further info on those 'Asutrian' battalion guns.
Hopefully the 'little bumblebee' won't be too effective on Sunday against my beloved Russians :wink:
See you on Saturday and you're welcom to arrive as early as you want so that you can do a bit of sightseeing.
Cheers
Dave
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Post by 18th Century Guy » Thu May 12, 2011 7:02 pm

Wow! This was a great posting. Very informative.
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Post by toggy » Thu May 12, 2011 7:40 pm

Hi Dave,

Good to see that the forum came through again, and that the little pop guns will be in their correct attire as they mow down battalions of Ruskies on Sunday

Hoping to be up around 3 pm on Saturday, see you then

Bob
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Post by Gerryjd » Thu May 12, 2011 7:49 pm

toggy wrote:Hi Dave,

Good to see that the forum came through again, and that the little pop guns will be in their correct attire as they mow down battalions of Ruskies on Sunday

Hoping to be up around 3 pm on Saturday, see you then

Bob
Ha! I wouldn't cackle yet Bob! Dave'll probably have you playing as a Russian this time my friend!!! :lol: :lol:

Cheers

Gerry

P.s. And good to learn something new again. Cheers Chaps!!
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Post by obriendavid » Thu May 12, 2011 10:10 pm

Gerryjd wrote:
toggy wrote:Hi Dave,
Good to see that the forum came through again, and that the little pop guns will be in their correct attire as they mow down battalions of Ruskies on Sunday Bob
Ha! I wouldn't cackle yet Bob! Dave'll probably have you playing as a Russian this time my friend!!! :lol: :lol:
Cheers Gerry
Shhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! don't give all my plans away :lol:
Cheers
Dave
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