battery of guns and howitzers

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Belg
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battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Belg » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:16 am

The batteries of the napoleonic period were formed by a number of guns and a number of howitzers, in the ratio from 2: 1 to 4: 1 depending by the army.
The questions now I asked myself are theese:

1. When a battery was firing, it fire simultaneously with the guns and with the howitzers? Or did they made alternating firing?

2. Cannons and howitzers of the same battery fired at one, single target, or the guns were firing on a target and howitzers on another?

Someone would know provide to me some indication?
Thank You

Sergio
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Ronan the Librarian » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:33 pm

Sergio,

Try these (the third part deals with tactics); there is another piece on the French Line artillery, but I can't get it to link.

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military ... arty1.html

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military ... arty2.html

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military ... arty3.html

http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napoleoni ... illery.htm

The French were generally ahead of everyone else tactically, and - with the exception of the British - technically as well. Try these for the main enemies of the French (can't seem to link to the Austrian artillery article for some reason):-

http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napoleoni ... illery.htm

http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napoleoni ... poleon.htm

http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napoleoni ... illery.htm

That should cover most, if not all, of your needs.

RtL
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Ronan the Librarian » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:45 pm

Hi again,

These might be interesting – only one gun, unfortunately, but indicative of what was involved:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx2IQViUmkc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkuSqE1HoCM

(Fast forward to 2:30 on the second film.)

Here's the King's Troop, RHA, doing it "en masse" in a public park in London, commemorating the anniversary of the Queen's Coronation:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq8c9xq_mjg

(FF to 1:15 for the troop coming into action; then FF again to 4:20 to see the teams and horse-holders come back to collect. If you follow the teams as they withdraw, you can see how much the guns and limbers bounce over what is well-kept parkland – imagine what this would be like on "normal" battlefield terrain, especially for men riding on the limbers or wurst seats.)

Hope that was interesting.

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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Belg » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:33 am

Hi, Ronan,
many thanks for the reference material that you have reported me.
It is very useful.
I will have to spend quite a lot 'of time to translate it and study it.
You were really kind.
Best regards

Sergio
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Belg » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:25 am

Hi,
in your opinion, a volley fired by rifles of an Infantry Battalion or carbins of a Cavalry Regiment against a battery, in addition to killing the gunners, could also damage some of the pieces? That is, can we assume that the balls fired from rifles / carbines finished on the cannon and / or howitzers could damage them in such a way as to make them unusable?

What do you think about it?

Many thanks

Sergio
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by obriendavid » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:19 pm

I suppose some bullets might break some spokes on the guns wheels and limit mobility but generally I can see bullets damaging the gun barrels.
Apart from killing or wounding gun crews they can also take down the horses pulling the limbers and caissons.
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Belg » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:57 pm

obriendavid wrote:I suppose some bullets might break some spokes on the guns wheels and limit mobility but generally I can see bullets damaging the gun barrels.
Apart from killing or wounding gun crews they can also take down the horses pulling the limbers and caissons.
Cheers
Dave
Hi, Obriendavid,
many thanks.
Cheers
Sergio
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Belg » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:15 pm

To complete the above question:

1) Instead a gun (or an howitzer) it could be damaged or destroyed by a gun's hit (full ball) or by a grenade that exploded right over it?

2) And a grapeshot volley could hurt a gun (or an howitzer) to make it unusable?

Many thanks

Cheers
Sergio
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Ronan the Librarian » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:58 pm

Sergio,

I think in all of your examples, the overwhelming types of damage would be death or wounds to the crew/horses, and smashing/splintering of the wooden parts of the gun/limber. A direct hit from a ball might dismount the barrel, especially if it came from a flank, and this could snap off one or both of the trunnions. However, most fire from in front would strike the barrel at a sufficiently shallow angle to bounce off (again, a large enough ball might gouge a lump out of the barrel).

Hope that helps.

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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Belg » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:30 pm

Ronan the Librarian wrote:Sergio,

I think in all of your examples, the overwhelming types of damage would be death or wounds to the crew/horses, and smashing/splintering of the wooden parts of the gun/limber. A direct hit from a ball might dismount the barrel, especially if it came from a flank, and this could snap off one or both of the trunnions. However, most fire from in front would strike the barrel at a sufficiently shallow angle to bounce off (again, a large enough ball might gouge a lump out of the barrel).

Hope that helps.

RtL
He, Ronan,
yes, very helpful,
many thanks

Cheers,

Sergio
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by janner » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:11 pm

The surviving gun carriages I've seen from that era look pretty robust. I'm not sure even massed musketry would do much more than chip the paintwork and I can imagine even bronze barrels suffering noticeable damage. However, ricochets might increase the risk to the crew to a degree.

To follow up on the point about the vulnerability of the horses, train/limber teams were taken some way to the rear of the battery for this very reason.

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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Belg » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:08 pm

janner wrote:The surviving gun carriages I've seen from that era look pretty robust. I'm not sure even massed musketry would do much more than chip the paintwork and I can imagine even bronze barrels suffering noticeable damage. However, ricochets might increase the risk to the crew to a degree.

To follow up on the point about the vulnerability of the horses, train/limber teams were taken some way to the rear of the battery for this very reason.

Regards,
He, Janner,
many thanks to you for your very useful contribution to the discussion.

Based on the information you Friends gave me, of which I thank you again, as for our wargame we would have decided to apply the following rules:
- Volleys of rifles and grapeshot do not damage the guns nor the gun carriage, they only kill the Gunners; chosen by the Player who suffered the loss, he can sacrifice some horses to save their Gunners having been found murdered.
- Grenades: they can damage the carriage gun; to it we apply the rules already established for the Special Characters of the Unit. The gun has a Saving Throw. If it do not pass it, the gun carriage is damaged. In the next phase of Move, the gun carriage can be repaired. Obviously, the unit cannot move. Making a special test: if the result is OK, the gun carriage is considered repaired, otherwise it is considered destroyed and Unit is eliminated.
- Roundshot: it follow the procedure as for grenades, but if you do not pass the Saving Throw the gun carriage is automatically considered destroyed, therefore the gun becomes unusable, and the Unit is eliminated.

Cheers,
Sergio
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by obriendavid » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:12 pm

If you are using Republic to Empire then Barry had changed the damage system for artillery receiving fire as we found they were too resilient under the core rules. Depending on the type of incoming fire the damage can vary.
I'm not sure where Barry has posted the updated rules?
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Dave
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Greystreak » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:24 pm

It's posted here, Dave: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3809 . :D
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Re: battery of guns and howitzers

Post by Belg » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:07 am

obriendavid wrote:If you are using Republic to Empire then Barry had changed the damage system for artillery receiving fire as we found they were too resilient under the core rules. Depending on the type of incoming fire the damage can vary.
I'm not sure where Barry has posted the updated rules?
Cheers
Dave
We are using our home made rules "Naran Fuciliers Wars", derived from the well-known wargame Fantasy Warriors:
http://www.naran.it/wargames/index.htm

Cheers,

Sergio
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