Blenheim OOB

[footslogger]

Nicely done! Big units good!

A few questions about these and what you have upcoming:
- Are you getting dismounts for these lads?
- Does your painter hand paint the flags? If not, where do you plan to get your Hanoverian flags?
- It looks like you used the cav figs rather than the dragoon figs for these. Is that correct and if so, why did you make that choice? I'm about to start painting up some dragoons - Dopf for the Dutch and Bauditz or Baudissan (can't quite figure out what it's supposed to be called) for Holstein-Gottorp.

[Churchill]

Ray.

[footslogger]

No, I don't think either of them were. I'm painting for Ramillies. There were some units at both battles, but there is a lot of divergence. Lots of Dutch at Ramillies but not at Blenheim. Lots of Imperial troops at Blenheim that didn't go to the Low Countries.

[Churchill]

Ray.

[Motorway]

That's right, some Dutch regiments did fight at Blenheim which you'll know is in southern Germany, but the main Dutch forces refused to fight outside Flanders for fear of a major attack on the Spanish Netherlands.
As far as Marlborough and the British regiments were concerned they fought at all four major battles.
All the best with your Ramillies project, I look forward to seeing your painted regiments.

Best Wishes,

Ray.

Mmmm.. a lot if it depends on the question on how to define regiments as "Dutch" or "English". I have in front of me "Het Staatsche leger", Vol VIII, part I, written by historian J.W. Wijn. He lists at least 2/3 (!) of the troops present at Blenheim as part or full paid by the Dutch. Dutch "National" Regiments present were Goor, Rechteren, Beinheim, Baldwin, Erbach, Erbach, Saksen Heilburg.

[wdrenth]

To add to Motorway's reply, the number of English national troops present in the Low Countries between 1701 and 713 was never larger than about 25,000 men (20-22 battalions and a similar number of squadrons). True, England had in pay a multiple of that number as subsidy troops, but that was also true for the Dutch.

Anyone going to Blindheim should pay a visit to the Heimatmuseum at Hoechstaedt. (And enjoy some victuals at the cafe across the street.) See also http://britisharmylineages.blogspot.nl/ ... dheim.html. Outside the UK the battle is usually named after that somewhat larger town. There was also a first battle of Hoechstaedt in 1703. A third battle was fought much later under Napoleon in 1800. Though only a skirmish, it was upgraded into something big (and regarded as revenge for 1704).

cheers,
Wienand

[Churchill]

Ray.

[Motorway]

Ray,

I wasn't doubting your knowledge on Blenheim at all.

I just don't think there was a refusal of the Dutch to commit forces outside the Low Countries given the presence of dutch and dutch paid troops at Blenheim. According to Wijn the Dutch already knew of Marlborough's plans in February 1704 (at least Heinsius knew it).

[Churchill]

Ray.

[Motorway]

Well, like I wrote earlier on, it's a matter of defining the words "English"or "Dutch".

In 1667, a fleet under Admiral de Ruyter sailed to London. Marines were landed at Sheerness, they burned the fortress there and next the English fleet was severely damaged. Now, half of the seamen on de Ruyter's fleet were not dutch. More than half of the marines at Sheerness were English.

Still, for some reason everybody talks about "The Dutch fleet" attacking "The English fleet".

If you add the presence at Blenheim of the dutch paid troops (which were technically part of the dutch Army) I would hardly consider this a small effort.

On this page:
http://www.spanishsuccession.nl/blenheim.html

you can find the allied OOB, in which the troops are sorted by pay. The picture with the nice colours is based on Wijn's book I mentioned above.

There's also some very interesting research by Dr. van Nimwegen on Marlborough's supply system, which was basically..dutch..

Further reading:

Het Staatse Leger, Volume III (The standardwork on the Dutch States' Army up to the WSS)
De subsistentie van het Leger, PhD thesis of Dr Olaf van Nimwegen, deals with the logistics of the WSS, (I have an English Summary for those interested)
De Republiek als Grote Mogendheid, Dr Olaf van Nimwegen (basically deals with AWS)
Met Man en Macht, dutch military history 1550-2000

[Churchill]

Ray.

[footslogger]

I've heard the Olaf van Nimwegen is helping out some with the new Robert Hall book on the Dutch army.

Is the Het Staates work available online anywhere? I'd love to have something I could cut and paste into Google translate.

Your rampjaar blog is awesome, thanks for putting the work into it and continuing to add new material.

[Justin Penwith]

Motorway,

I am VERY interested in the van Nimwegen dissertation! I do not read Dutch, either, but I probably should learn it enough to translate documents. I would love to get the English summary from you. If you can tell me at which university it was published, that would be greatly appreciated as I do need the full Dutch version as well.

My own research directly bears on the Anglo-Dutch logistical system during the WSS, and whether or not Marlborough deserves the reputation he has for its success.

[EvilGinger]

Online translators work rather well on Dutch I found by accident when wanting to read websites in Flemish to feed my obsession with Belgium armies, yet another project I really must get back to. Its also easier for a native English speaker to get his head round being a very closely related language, & lacking some of the eye watering portmanteau words which German has.


Ginger

[wdrenth]

As for an order of battle on Blenheim, have you considered Dalton's Blenheim roll that is printed in English Army Lists and Commission Registers Volume 5? It is available at http://archive.org/details/englisharmylist03daltgoog and gives a full list of officers, with details on wounded, dead, how much bounty, etc etc.

Van Nimwegen's thesis was published by the Bataafsche Leeuw in Amsterdam. Here the full BiBTex citation:
@book{Nimwegen:Subsistentie,
author = "Olaf van Nimwegen",
title = {De subsistentie van het leger. Logistiek and strategie van het Geallieerde en met name het Staatse leger tijdens de Spaanse Successieoorlog in de Nederlanden en het Heilige Roomse Rijk (1701-1712)},
publisher = {De Bataafsche Leeuw},
address = {Amsterdam},
year = 1995,
note = {(Dutch text with an English summary)}
}
Second-hand copies can be found at site like http://www.abebooks.com.

Het Staatsche Leger is not available digitally, as far as I know. Second hand copies are also difficult to find, but libraries may, or may not, have a full set. Another non-English source for the WSS are the respective volumne of Feldzüge des Prinzen Eugen von Savoyen, which can be found at www.archive.org[/org]. It is somehow a ... ogspot.nl/ may be of interest for those interested.

cheers,
Wienand