Irish

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
pappenheimuk
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Irish

Post by pappenheimuk » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:43 am

Guys
Just got hold of an old WRG book 'from pike to shot' and in the jacobite Irish section it states that St Ruth brought over enough material for 20,000 uniforms in a buff colour, although there is no proof that this material was actually used, do you think that it could justify some Irish units with buff coloured uniform coats with different coloured facings?
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barr7430
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Post by barr7430 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:02 am

I think that is very possible. The definition of `buff' is open to interpretation anyway David. Maybe mix the shades of buff, sand, brown, grey etc. I think most of the Irish units would have been more poorly dressed.
I might also suggest a higher proportion of Pikes per unit. Say a 3 stand unit based in the ULB fashion with the central stand containing only Standards and Pikes. It would count as two stands for firing and have a better melee combat factor.

B
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pappenheimuk
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irish

Post by pappenheimuk » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:36 am

Thanks Barry,
This is a great period, still undecided to work on Glorious Revolution or later Irish Jacobite option. Would like to maybe work a battle into one of the Scottish shows we go to but always worried about some peoples stupid interpretations of period especially in west of Scotland :(

david
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RE: West of Scotland attitudes

Post by PaulMc » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:10 pm

Hi pappenheim,

I say do your show and let the ignoramus element of our country say what they will. It just gives you the oppportunity to better educate them!
As a last resort you can always remind them that it is just a game. (If they know what that means :roll: )


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Post by barr7430 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:21 pm

I agree with Paul although I must say I've thought twice about doing 1690-92 games before in Scotland. You never know who is likely to say what!!

B
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Post by pappenheimuk » Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:49 pm

Guys,
Would the Jacobite Irish Regts. have grenadier companies in them?

David
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Post by barr7430 » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:09 pm

The better established and more experienced defintely would ; The Guards, Grand Prior's, Bellew's etc. I suspect the others would have something that they called grenadier companies but these may just have been the bigger, fitter or stronger(or braver) men with no real extra training. A grenadier should have grenades and a hatchet. Whether these items were readily available to an army which could hardly put shoes on the feet of its soldiers or even feed them, is a debatable point.

I don't think anyone will criticise you for having grenadier companies or not in a Jacobite Army. I still recommend you go heavier on the pikes though. :wink:

B
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Post by lenin » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:44 pm

Hi David,

For loads of information on the Williamite wars in Ireland Lindsay has given me loads of web site addresses you will find them in the help section. One of them even mentions James' use of Grenadiers at the Boyne.

Cheers, Andy.
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Post by pappenheimuk » Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:52 pm

Thanks again lads :D
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Post by Sgt Steiner » Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:46 pm

Hi

Try living a bit further west across that little stretch of sea :D
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Sharing info

Post by Anonymous » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:09 am

If I do not know I have said so or unsure have put a ( ? ) regards Lindsay

For Irish (in Ireland): Jacobite
King's regt of Irish Guards: Red coats, blue lining
Lord Bellow's; red coats, orange cuffs
Grand Prior's; Red coats, white cuffs
Antrims; red coats faced red
O'Neills; white coats, brown cuffs
Eustace's Red coats, yellow cuffs

Williamite
3rd The King's Own Hussars Duke of Somerset's Regiment of Dragoons
1685.08.02
Coat Red , Facings and cuffs Light green, Shabraque and pistol holders Green Lined yellow. Yellow lace Brass buttons Black boots


5th Regiment of Foot1674.08.08 The Irish Regiment
Colonels
1674.08.08 Col. Daniel (O'Brien), 3rd Viscount Clare
1675.08.02 Maj-Gen. Sir John Fenwick, Bt
1676.09.11 Col. Henry Wisely
1680.12.10 Col. Thomas Monk
1688.10.09 Lt-Gen. Thomas Tollemache
1689.05.01 Col. Edward Lloyd
1694.11.06 Maj-Gen. Thomas Fairfax
1704.02.05 Lt-Gen. Thomas Pearce
added to post Tuesday06/14/05

Coat Scarlet/ Facings Gosling Green /Britches ? stockings ?

6th Regiment of Foot Formed 1673.12.12 Sir Walter Vane's Regiment of Foot colonels
1673.12.12 Maj-Gen. Sir Walter Vane [killed at Seneffe]
1674.08.16 Brig-Gen. Luke Lillingston
1675.09.13 Col. Thomas Ashley
1678.04.03 Lt-Gen. Sir Henry Bellasis
1688.04.07 Col. Philip Babington
1691.04.15 Maj-Gen. Georg, Prince of Hesse Darmstadt
1694.02.01 Col. Henry (de Caumont), Marquess de Rada
1695.06.23 Col. Ventris Columbine
1703.11.02 Col. James Rivers
1706.02.06 Col. William Southwell
1708.06.14 Col. Thomas Harrison
1716.03.07 Col. Robert Dormer

The Dutch employed British troops to fight with them against the French and amongst the British contingent was Lillingstone’s Regiment. In 1688, William of Orange came to England to be King, bringing with him a body of troops that included Lillingstone’s Regiment. An early nickname for them was ‘The Dutch Guards’ and it was this relationship with the House of Orange that resulted in the Regiment adopting the colours of ‘Royal Blue and Old Gold with a touch of Dutch Pink.
added to post Tuesday06/14/05
No Uniform info as yet

9th Regiment of Foot Formed1685.06.19 Henry Cornewall's Regiment of Foot
Colonels 19/06/85 Henry Cornewall
20/11/88 Oliver Nicholas
31/12/88 John Cunningham
01/05/89 William Stuart
red coats lined orange cuffs?/waistcoat orange? /grey Britches/ whiteorgrey stockings orange hatband /yellow lace brass buttons
12th Regiment of Foot formed1685.06.20 The Duke of Norfolk's Regiment of Foot
colonels20/06/85 Henry Howard 7th Duke of Norfolk
14/06/86 Sir Henry Lee, Bt., 1st earl of Lichfield
30/11/88 Sir Robert Carey, 6th Lord Hunsden
31/12/88 The Hon Henry Wharton
01/11/89 Richard Brewer
red coats lined blue/ cuffs white/waistcoat blue/ Britches Blue/ stockings Blue/ hatband white/ yellow lace/ brass buttons
19th Regiment of Foot formed 1688.11.20 Francis Lutterell's Regiment of Foot
Colonels 20/11/88 Francis Lutterell
01/01/91 Thomas Erle
Blue coats lined yellow/ cuffs yellow/waistcoat blue/ Britches Blue/ stockings white/ hatband blue/ White lace/Pewter buttons till 1691
After 1691 red coats lined yellow/ cuffs yellow/waistcoat not known Britches yellow/ stockings white/ hatband white/ yellow lace/ brass buttons
20th Regiment of Foot1688.11.20 Sir Richard Peyton's Regiment of Foot
Colonels 20/11//88 Sir Robert Peyton
01/06/89 Gustavus Hamilton
red coats lined red/ cuffs Red/waistcoat blue/ Britches Not known/ stockings grey/ hatband white/ yellow lace/ brass buttons
22nd Regiment of Foot Formed 1688.03.08 Duke of Norfolk's Regiment of Foot
Colonels 08/03/89 Henry Duke of Norfolk
28/09/89 Sir henry Bellasis
red coats lined red/ cuffs Red/waistcoat grey/ Britches grey/ stockings grey/ hatband white/ white lace/ brass buttons Officers gold
( one source shows buff/ flesh facings with yellow lace hat and white buttons)
23rd Regiment of Foot Formed 1689.03.16 Lord Herbert's Regiment of Foot
Blue coats lined white/ cuffs white?/waistcoat blue ?/ Britches white/ stockings white/ hatband white/ White lace/Pewter buttons
25th Regiment of Foot1689.03.19 The Earl of Leven's, or Edinburgh, Regiment of Foot
red coats lined white/ cuffs white?/waistcoat blue ?/ Britches grey/ stockings white/ hatband white/ White lace/Pewter buttons
Last edited by Anonymous on Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.
pappenheimuk
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Post by pappenheimuk » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:46 am

Lindsay,
You are a gentleman and a scholar :D

David
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Thoughts

Post by Anonymous » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:43 pm

A wargames site, by wargamers, for wargamers.
Is how Barry put it I think if we all share what we know it makes for happier wargamers. :D
Who knows with input from all we may build a data base that will encourage more people to game in interesting periods.
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barr7430
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Post by barr7430 » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:09 pm

Nice one Lindsay ! 8)

Just a note for those who may be still getting into the period :

If you look at Lindsay's list(last post before this one) all regiments down to and including Eustace's are JACOBITE and all those following are WILLIAMITE.

Cheers


Barry :wink:
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Anonymous

oops

Post by Anonymous » Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:44 pm

Yeah I missed out in saying that very thing I consider myself sent to the corner for the rest of the day :lol:
I corrected that added regiments I know that were there but have no info on Namely the 5th Regiment of Foot1674.08.08 The Irish Regiment
raised for Dutch service1685 transferred to English Establishment

6th Regiment of Foot1673.12.12 Sir Walter Vane's Regiment of Foot
raised at Bois-le-Duc from Irish troops for Dutch service1688 transferred to English Establishment
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