Irish Again

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
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pappenheimuk
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Irish Again

Post by pappenheimuk » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:23 pm

Thats it,
Finally made my mind up, going for Dixon GA figs and Irish Jacobite units.

When making the units up I took on board your advice re pike heavy units
Barry and have decided on following make up:

Guards 2 bases shot, 1 base pike & command - elite
Select Irish as above but - drilled
Irish levies as above - raw.

not sure about cavalry, I think they could probably be justified as elite horse but I am tempted to make them drilled and give them a melee bonus like the french.

What do the panel think?

:?
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Post by barr7430 » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:38 pm

David.. the right choice !!!

They'll be a fine Army. I agree with your overview although I might tend to give the guards a third base of shot and stick the pikes on the back as a fourth base. Cross of StGeorge as their Colours I think or even risk the Royal Standard of the Stuarts!

Re The Horse. Irish cavalry were renowned in relative terms, aggressive and very active (particularly at the Boyne). Make them elite in morale terms when compared with the Williamites. Give them the French NYW bonus of kills on 4,5,6.
Have a few raw units also for balance.If we seperate out all of the rhetoric and bigotry associated with battles such as this we have a far more objective view of:
A very professional(if mercenary) European army supplemented by enthusiastic recruits with a political/religious axe to grind - The Williamites
fighting a largely untrained but motivated peasant army who believed in their cause- The Jacobites.

I have certain scenario specific Mods for the Irish battles which are supplemental to ULB such as:

1. Jacobite Irish/Williamite Irish foot may charge enemy foot of the opposite persuasion even if they are NOT SHAKEN.

2. Melee bonuses in first round or pushing back (for the same)

3. No quarter given in win lose situations.

I think many of the European Foot may have been a little bemused by the War in Ireland. Let's face it, they'd be fighting the French in Flanders - Dutch, Danes, Germans. Swedes, Swiss... then they get across the Irish Sea and find something a little different!!!!


My opinions only, but it makes for exciting gaming! :wink:

All the best

Barry
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Anonymous

I wonder

Post by Anonymous » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:08 pm

I wonder if you could add some Scots Highlanders in to the mix somewhere :)
Sounds like good army and a good choice lots of luck with it.
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Highlanders

Post by PaulMc » Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:59 pm

Course you can Lindsay. Just make it a 'What If' scenario/campaign. For instance, what if Claverhouse hadn't been killed at Killiekrankie?

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Post by barr7430 » Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:10 pm

If you want to read/try a scenario of that type go to the Warchest Pubished Articles and have a shufti through Wargaming the Glorious Revolution & Beyond- Battle of Nantwich. I wrote this scenario about 10 years ago and played it with Alasdair Jamison and David Shuttleworth. I believe they have also played it again since.

The premise is as Paul says.... Dundee's Army is victorious at Killiecrankie, he doesn't die, he links up with a significant size force of Irish Jacobites transferred from Ireland to the Northern English Coast. The Levy rises for the King in the Northern Counties, a few French units land in Leith and march with the Scots and a rump of the Royal Army in England joins back with the Jacobites. This mixed force including French regulars, English and Irish volunteers and Highlanders meets with the largely Continental Williamite Army near Nantwich in Cheshire....

It is pretty well balanced, both sides have a chance of a win...

B
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ULB 15mm

Post by pappenheimuk » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:10 am

Excellent article Barry, will be fighting our first game using ULB this weekend at our local club, War of Spanish Succession using Austrian/Danish vs French. We will be using 15mm figs we've had for centuries. The figs are based for Koenig Kreig ( 4 figs to a base & 3 bases to a battalion(4 for Danes)), I was going to half all ranges and movement rates but generally use the rules as is.
Any comments chaps

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Post by barr7430 » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:59 am

You should be ok with that David. Let me know how it goes!

B
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Post by simon boulton » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:51 pm

Have been doing some calculations using the 'Review of the Royal Army 1/2 October 1989' in the osprey book on the Battle of the Boyne. Overall the ratio of firearms to pikes comes out at about 3:1 but when you look at the individual regiments and rounding to a whole figure, there are wide variations from one regiment that had no pikes (Lord Slanes) to two 1:1
The results from 26 regts come out as two 1:1, eleven 2:1, four 3:1, three 4:1, one 6:1, two 7:1 and the other three 9:1 or higher. I should point out that I didnt bother with 3:2 ratio's etc. The Osprey book also mentions that when the French foot came over in March 1690 they bought 1,000,000 pounds of supplies with them, including unforms and firearms.
My point though at the end of all this is that its all a matter of choice. You could organise your Irish Jacobite foot as Barry suggests, organise them as normal regiments or a mixture of both for different regts.
My own choice (I think, still not sure yet!) is for a three standard unit with three pikeman on the middle base which is how I'm planning to do all my foot unless they don't have pikes like the Danes. I read the excellent article on making your units flexible and reckon this way most units will be suitable for battles on the continent too. Stretching thinga a little can help too, for example the Irish regt Boisseleau had I believe a French General as colonel so I'm assuming that it could also have a French colonels white flag and plain grey uniform, it could then be used for a number of French regiments, militia, newly raised etc or another option, use the same flag but give them red coats and you've also got a Swiss regiment in French service. These doesn't seem to be a lot of hard facts about the uniforms so theres plenty of flexibility! I did wonder if Lord Slanes regt (the one without pikes) was intend as an artillery guard, given that the 'British' fuziliers had no pikes too. Hope this is of interest to someone anyway!
Best wishes
Simon
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Post by azeroth » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:52 pm

Slightly deviating but if you are thinking of getting the dixons figures at Claymore, you are best off phoning him and letting him know what you are after as he is bringing "limited" stock of the period, as most of his stock is blister packed. I have just ordered my starter army pack and customised it a little to be colected at Claymore.

We could also have a meeting of the forum members who are there as well, put faces to nicknames etc?

IanB
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Claymore

Post by pappenheimuk » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:55 pm

Unfortunately,I won't be able to go this year :cry:
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