ULB mixed melee question

[quindia]

Hi, Barry!

I've been messing around with the ULB rules and came upon something that is unclear to me. I understand infantry vs infantry and cavalry vs cavalry melees, but cavalry vs infantry has me confused. I see where cavalry rolls for kills and the benifits infantry gain from pike blocks, but I don't see how infantry fights back. I understand the "stand and fire" casualties count toward melee resolution. It would seem that if an infantry unit chooses to form a square when charged (and thus is unable to fire), they have no chance to inflict any casulaties. I think someone asked this before, but I can't find it. I'm sure the answer is blazingly obvious, but I've read over it several times and I'm still stumped.

I also see where a loser is pushed back, made to check morale, etc. What exactly determines the winner of a melee - is it just who causes the most mayhem?

Finally what does "Dragoons loose one figure for every four fighting" mean? Do Dragoons suffer instant casualties when they melee or do they only roll three combat dice instead of four for kills?

I am still determined to adapt the rules to the ECW. I may need to write a rule for Trotters that allows for short range fire by cavalry - something to the effect of the unit must remain stationary 8" from the target, but may fire as if at close range to simulate the Parlimentarian tactic of riding forward firing pistols to soften up their target and retiring - that is unless Rupert's calvary didn't run over them first! They might also choose to stand and fire, although it seems like that tatic was no where near as effective as a counter charge.

Acouple more ideas:

Firelocks attached to artillery may be represented by placing a single round marker stand of three figures next to a gun and giving some form of firing bonus at short range.

A Lifeguard unit may be represented in a similar manner and offer the object of their guardianship an extra save should ill luck befall him via the event cards.

The tactic of dispersing units of commanded shot with horse could again be simulated with a marker stand of three figures and would give the horse unit a combat bonus (possibly only in defense, but I'm not sure until I get to tinker around on the tabletop - I'm still painting units), but the horse unit would be forced to move at infantry speed. If the unit accelerated beyond that, the commanded shot stand would be removed.

Anyway, the main thing is an answer to the melee question...

[barr7430]

Hi Clarence!

Let me try and untangle the mess.


In cavalry v infantry melee the infantry's main chanceof stopping the cavalry is in the stand and fire volley. If they kill some cavalry then the cavalry test and may fail and therefore ROUT = victory to the infantry. If the cavalry pass the test can contact but kill less than the infantry inflicted on them they test - may fail and ROUT = victory to the infantry. If the cavalry pass the CHARGE HOME test and inflict and equal number to what they received neither side tests and another round of melee continues with the Horse killing only on 6.

If the cavalry inflict more than they receive then the infantryis pushed back 2" and tests as loser of melee, disordered.

The reason infantry do not 'FIGHT BACK ' against cavalry in the melee is that they have made the decision to :

a. Fire and therefore have no opportunity to fix bayonets(plugs) - the gamble is do you fire or not.

b. Form square - a difficult manoeuvre taking the entire move therefore allowing no time for anything other than self preservation.

Infantry's main chance to win is the stand and fire volley, cavalry's is the first round of contact. The system may seem a little odd... what? no fighting back? but it is simulating a lot more of the activities that a man swinging a rifle butt at another on a horse. It should be looked upon as more a measure of activities and effectiveness than pure casualty infliction.

I've always found it works very well and the real moral of the story is never let your infantry get exposed to cavalry!

On the dragoons issue. Lose one dice in four is not an automatic casualty but rather a measure of the poor quality of dragoon horses. Four dragoons actually fight as three (ie 75% effectiveness of normal Horse). Therefore 8 fight as 6, 12 fight as 9.

Like your ideas for ECW with ULB. I would suggest a suingle stand of 6 muskets be used as a trayne guard. I have a (bad) photo of such a stand in the TYW gallery.

hope this is useful

B

[quindia]

Thanks, Barry!

I have finally returned to my ECW project (it's only been six months or so) and have a pile of horse units lined up to paint: seven squadrons of horse, two squadrons of cuirassiers, and a mounted version of the foot dragoons already on my site. I've got three squadrons finished and am on pace to have them all done in a couple of weeks. I'm going to start adding them to the site when I get the chance to take some photos.

A couple of artillery pieces and a few more generals and my Parlimentarian force will be finished (for now). Gee, maybe by this time next year, I'll have enough Royalists finished to actually try ULB on the table

Actually, when I have a few more squadrons ready, I'm going to split my Parlimentarians and set them on each other!

[quindia]

More ULB questions

1. Why do cavalry need to test morale twice to charge... once to initiate and once to charge to contact? They also must test if they suffer casulaties when a target stands and fires. Does that make three tests? Maybe there's a misprint or I'm reading something wrong?

2. Can a second squadron (or more) lend it's weight to a melee by piling in behind a friendly unit? I understand that in the charge to contact only units in base to base fight, but "in any subsequent round all figures in the unit can fight". Since I have a hard time seeing where a two stand unit would overlap by more than a figure or two, I wondered if this again refered to a regiment rather than a squadron.
I see in gallery photos the regiments deployed in columns of squadrons as I presume they would have been in real life, but the trailing squadrons seem to be of little help in that formation.

3. When a routing unit is caught by pursuers what happens? Are they destroyed or does the melee just continue the next round at the new spot?

I know it would be a large project, but I would love to see a GW style battle report with step-by-step examples of the rule mechanisms in an actual game (everyone else chime in). I really like the rule set but am finding a few things unclear - I'm sure that it's my reading of things that makes it that way! I am looking forward to actually getting them on the tabletop, but I'm sure more questions will come up then...

Sorry to bug you!

[barr7430]

Hi Clarence,

Cavalry take the first test

TO INITIATE THEIR CHARGE: this is simulating them receiving the orders and the ability of their officers to get them to obey those orders. If successful they begin the charge. If not, they do nothing for the rest of that Turn - simulating the disorder that may have resulted from their inability to comply. The one exception to this is if they themselves are charged. In such a case they can attempt to initiate a counter charge once the enemy squadron has moved 2 x D6 inches directly toward them. If this distance is greater than the initial seperation distance then they are caught AT THE HALT fighting back on on kills of 6 on a D6. If they are successful in countercharging but the distance between both units is less than 6 inches at that point they also fail to get up charge speed and kill only on 6. If they succeed in the COUNTERCHARGE and they temsleves travel 3 inches or more then they count as charging an kill on the normal charge dice for their type.

Back to the chargin squadron against infantry... The Infantry undertake their stand and fire test. They deliver a volley which kills one cavalryman. At this stage they take a second test to CHARGE HOME...simulating the possibility that infantry resistance may disuade them from attacking. If they fail this test they ROUT. If they pass they charge to contact and attempt to inflict casualties on the infantry. If they inflict more than they receive then THEY WIN and do not test morale. If the Infantry pass their test but lost more casualties they are PUSHED BACK DISORDERED. The cavalry follow up. If the infantry lose and fail their test they may well RETREAT or ROUT. If so, the cavalry must PURSUE for at least one Turn before attempting to cease pursuit via a morale check.

SO in summary to first question TWO TESTS MAXIMUM

In answer to the second question..

In an initial round of melee(new melee so to speak) only one squadron from either side may join(unless the target squadron has enemy at more than one compass point). The Squadrons charge individually. If the melee continues to subsequent Turns then any number of squadrons may join IF they have an uninterupted line of sight to the melee and DO NOT need to change formation or contract or expand.

No squadron may stay in melee more than 3 consecutive Turns. If they are still fighting(ie unbroken) after this time they pull out and REFORM for a Turn.

Question 3. Pursuers contacting Routers kill on 6(Dice per figure) Routers do not fight back.

I would like to do a blow by blow battle account with pics and may get round to it. As ULB is not a commercial venture I currently have no huge motivation to do it! I am planning a game in this period soon and will try and take appropriate pictures to illustrate some of the rule points

Hope this clarifies

B

[quindia]

Thanks, Barry!