Common mistake on illustration of Danish flags

[barr7430]

In many of the flags often used to illustrate Danish regiments in the period of the NYW 1688-1697 The F4 cypher for King Fredrik is shown.
This is not accurate as the King at the time of the war was Christian V
who had a completely different cypher incorporating the letter C and an arabic 5. He reigned from 1672-1699 I believe.

The mistakes perhaps eminate in the English speaking world from Sapherson's book on the Danish Army which rightly deals with the army in the reign of Fredrik 4 and illustrates the colours for the right period with the right cypher. Retro fitting the flags to the earlier period seems to have created the oversight which I too did with some regiments a few years back.
Thought this was worth pointing out as the Danes are a significant component of William's Army in Ireland and Flanders and popular with gamers.
Being expert on the Danish succession was not mandatory at my school

[Dfogleman2]

Also, if you see flags with a blue ribbon and an elephant hanging from it, the flag will be after 1693, because the Order of the Elephant, which it represents was not founded until that year.

[CoffinDodger]

Also, if you see flags with a blue ribbon and an elephant hanging from it, the flag will be after 1693, because the Order of the Elephant, which it represents was not founded until that year.

Is that a pink elephant? I usually only see them the morning after.

Jim

[barr7430]

Guilty once more M'Lud!

[quindia]

Ok, even Sapherson's booklet William III At War - Scotland & Ireland, 1681-1691 shows both the King's initials and the Order of the Elephant for standards carried in Ireland...

So do we have any idea what any of these standards should look like?

[barr7430]

Yes Clarence, that is a definite error. Guys like Sapherson have really pushed the boundaries of understanding of the period but, they get things wrong sometimes. This is the kind of debate which I thought was healthy on the forum but to which certain delicate flowers took offence and decided to take their bats and balls home. Often, I noticed, these types of individuals are very quick to correct the errors of others but seem to retain a sort of Papal infallibility.
However I digress, I think a good safety check would be as follows:

Can we get a hold of any Danish colours from the Skane(Scanian) War of the 1670s? Maybe Andreas Heneborn could help us there. I know he is Swedish but the Danes were fighting the Swedes. We look for commonality in colours pre 1690-1698 with post 1702. If elements such as field colour, dannebrog in the hoist canton, emblems etc are common then we are probably on fairly safe ground to drop in Christian Vs cypher in place of Frederik IV. That is my logic...

[quindia]

I spent several hours searching the net, including sites in Danish and turned up next to nothing. As with much of this period, I am learning that I may just have to call it close enough. Substituting the F4 monogram with the C5 is a simple fix and replacing the Order of the Elephant ribbon with a plain oval border sans the pachyderm will suffice unless someone else can come up with better references.

At least the crown icon is known as belonging to King Christian V. The laurel wreaths, lions, and that goofy lindorm are probably all fine too...

[Dfogleman2]

Quindia,

I sent you a pm. I can send you a bunch of stuff. Basically, you can use the flags shown in the Scanian War article on Dan Schorr's Northern Wars, if you can find it on the Wayback Machine as a start. Some of the flags shown in the Hoglund book on the GNW are Danish flags from C5's period. I also have excerpts from some old Danish books that have photos of flags from the period. I think there is enough info to at least get a good approximation of all the Danish flags in Ireland.

Dannie

[yar68]

I'm going to paint up the Danish Guards soon, and like yourselves have been looking at the flags for the regt. I made my own C5 device a couple of months ago, here it is



and also found this C5 device online, it looks a little like my one???
They may help you? You never know!!



Here's where I found the pic:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... 0608-8.jpg

I've also got the Danish Guide 1675-1679 from Northern Wars on file, if anyone needs it drop me a line and I'll pass it on.

[quindia]

The monogram for King Christian V can be found here.

[Dfogleman2]

The C5 surmounted by a crown is what was used on Danish flags of the period. Quindia, I will be sending you some info, but I won't be able to scan it until after Thanksgiving

[quindia]

The C5 surmounted by a crown is what was used on Danish flags of the period. Quindia, I will be sending you some info, but I won't be able to scan it until after Thanksgiving

Thanks - take your time... I won't be able to start painting anything for a few weeks yet anyway.

[Mats]

Gents,

There's an abundance of (pictorial) info for those who search in other languages than English. Regarding this specific discussion I would like to point you to the Statens Trofésamling of the Armémuseum in Stockholm. Amongst others it contains many Danish flags from the 17th & 18th centuries taken by the Swedes.

http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/search?nam ... %22&owners[S-AM]=true&also_without_pictures=1

Cheers,

Mats

[Dfogleman2]

Thanks Mats,

There are 207 Danish flags, many of which are fragments, mostly from the Scanian War. http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/search?q=D ... &start=196

Of course the colors have faded over the years, but the Sjaelandske, Jydske and Fynske flags probably did not change much from the late 1670s to the early 1690s.

[Ben Waterhouse]

What I find fascinating is the "naive" painting of some of the colours on that site; we do somewhat expect perfect pictures from some modern interpretations of these flags.

IOW my handpainted efforts wont look that bad...