Dutch Curiasseurs during WSS

pabblo41 · Post by **pabblo41** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:48 pm

Hi

Does anybody know which Dutch Cavalry regiments wore the full curiass (breast & back plate) during the WSS. I know some did but canot find a source to say which.

Thanks.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:56 pm

Hi Pabblo,

Regiment Grovestins (in the pay of Friesland) did for sure, I'll see if I can up with more info on other regiments over the weekend.

Cheers

Mats

pabblo41 · Post by **pabblo41** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:14 am

Thanks Mats

Any idea of uniform etc. I know that there is a colour plate of an unidentified Dutch Curiasseur in the Osprey book on Marlboro' army 1702 - 11, I will assume it is them.

Also what is your source.

Thanks

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:46 pm

Hi Pabblo,

There's no uniform information unfortunately. The regiment was heavily involved in Flanders and it was present at the battles of Ramillies, Oudenaarde and Malplaquet, only to return to Holland at the end of the WSS in 1711.

My source for Grovestins wearing a cuirass is 'Vier eeuwen Nederlandse Cavalerie' ['Four centuries Dutch Cavalry'] by Lieutenant-General J.A.C. Bartels, published in 1987.

Hope this helps!

Mats

pabblo41 · Post by **pabblo41** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:36 pm

Thanks Mats

Looks like I might have to get the Dan Schoor CD or booklet he has on the Dutch. How good is your German, as they have not done an updated english version yet (but I have been told that one is in the pipeline).

Thanks

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:13 pm

Hi Pabblo

The CD is worth every penny, although lay-out and artwork aren't of a very high standard. Combined with Sapherson's booklet on William's army it's probably all you need for the Dutch.

My German is pretty good actually, I just translated some stuff for Dan.

Cheers

Mats

pabblo41 · Post by **pabblo41** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:21 pm

Thanks Mats

Useful to know you can speak German, and that you have the CD. I have several, mostly the Robert Hall ones, of which I find the one on the Prussian Army to be the best. The artwork in all of the Hall CD's is fantastic, although some of the info relates to periods before or after the WSS.

Regarding the Dutch CD in German, does it contain the uniform of the Dutch Curiasseur (or any dutch curiasseur) unit you mentioned.

Thanks

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:29 pm

Hi Pabblo,

The CD has no uniform info on Grovestins (as that is unknown). However, there is a portrait of the commander of regiment Cannenberg (in the pay of Utrecht) who wears a cuiras. His coat and breeches are buff, lined in red. Perhaps his regiment (formerly Athlone) did wear cuirasses too.

In general, Dutch cavalry were issued half-cuirasses in 1707, copying Danish cavalry.

In the same year, 1,000 helmets (calottes) were issued to regiment Württemberg-Oels and perhaps to other regiments too, but we have no records of that. ( Source: Ten Raa, Het Staatsche Leger).

Hope this helps,

Mats

Post by **barr7430** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:37 pm

Mats,

weren't Wurttemberg Oels Danish?

B

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:29 am

Hi Barry,

Yes, they were Danish subsidy troops (dragoons) in the pay of Zeeland, forming half of dragoon regiment #1. (Source: "Die Vereinigte Niederlande - Nationaltruppen der Provinzen Holland un Seeland im Spanischen Erbfolgekrieg 1701-1714" by Belaubre, De Wilde & Kolberg)

Cheers

Mats

pabblo41 · Post by **pabblo41** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:50 am

Hi Mats

Thanks for the info, most useful.

Re Wuttemburg Oels, they were a very large dragoon unit, and from the OOB's I have seen they often operated as two units. In certain unit lists there are Danish Dragoon units mentioned (by commandes name) which do not appear in other lists, but what is interesting is that the Wuttemburg Oels unit is missing from this list. This would lead me to think that these two units are in fact the two parts of the Wuttemburg Oels under their indivudal commander's names.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:50 am

Hi Pabblo,

I think you're right. Other Dutch (native, foreign and subsidy) dragoon regiments had 4 squadrons of 2 troops each, Württemberg-Oels had 5 squadrons of 2 troops each. But when and under what other names are Danish dragoon units mentioned?

BTW: The Dutch had 17 native dragoon squadrons, and 49 foreign and subsidy dragoon squadrons.

Mats

pabblo41 · Post by **pabblo41** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:17 pm

Hi Mats

I will look up the information at home tonight about the Wuttemburg Oels

Thanks

pabblo41 · Post by **pabblo41** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:43 am

Hi Mats

The Danish Dragroon units are called Bauditz & Bonnart and are taken from a Ramillies OOB. There is no mention of the Wuttemburg Oels unit in this list, even though in most other Ramillies OOB's I have seen Wuttemburg Oels unit is mentioned as being the only Danish Dragroon unit present.

Thanks

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:22 am

Hi Pabblo,

Cheers for the input. Food for thought hey?

I found this:

The Army of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorf: Organisation and Deployment

[...]Baudisson's, sometimes called Bauditz's, Dragoon Regiment, Swedish name - Holsteinska Dragongardet.

Organisation: Listed as 4 squardrons of 128 men, 526 men in total.

Deployment:

1703 Entered Dutch service. Fought at Eckeren and had 312 men, 315 horses after this action. Subsequently fought at the battles of Ramilles, Oudenarde and Malplaquet.

1705 Reported to have a strength of about 300 men.

1714 This unit and the Holstein Dragoon Guards were combined as one unit and entered Swedish service with a strength of 997 men. The combined regiment was know as the ' Holsteinska Dragongardet' in Swedsih and was stationed in Demmin and Anklam.

1715 Combined regiment in Straslund with a strength of 562 men, captured their with the surrender and pressed into Danish and Prussian regiments.

Cheers

Mats