Another question on cuirassiers in Ireland 1690

[quindia]

Leaving aside the debate about the Danish horse, I just noticed that Harman Murtagh's book, The Battle of the Boyne 1690, A Guide to the Battlefield, depicts King James II's Lifeguard in breast and back plates on the cover and again on a coronet inside.

Mr. Murtagh is listed inside as a 'recognized expert on Irish military history, particularly the Jacobite Wars of 1689-1691' and 'vice-president of the Military History Society of Ireland'.

I have not seen it suggested anywhere else that the lifeguard wore armor. Does anyone have any ideas on this or maybe an idea on how to contact Mr. Murtagh?

[flick40]

Start here perhaps

http://www.mhsi.ie/

[Rebel]

My favourite bugbear - He also has Clare's dragoons in fur caps and yellow coats....

[Rebel]

Clarence, remember that the Lifeguards were mainly reconstituted in Ireland and having by now read the Franco Irish Correspondence several times cover to cover I can't recall any reference to the French supplying cavalry armour......

[quindia]

Thanks, Mike. I was just curious on finding out his source for this... there are a few books in the bibliography that I haven't seen. It was just weird because I haven't seen this ANYWHERE and I have a pretty large collection of books on the Boyne now. The wargamer in me was just wondering if it was possible. The Lifeguard will be all of six models on the table, but it would be neat to have them in armor.

Have you had contact with Dr. Murtagh before? It sounds like you are at least aware of his work since I didn't mention the dragoons...

[Friedrich August I.]

Dr. Harman Murtagh. Mount View. Athlone. County Westmeath. Tel. +353 906472420. E-mail hmurtagh@eircom.net

A find under the note Ireland on this document

http://www.google.at/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=d ... Jw&cad=rja

The Internet is a real beast

[quindia]

i'ii drop him a note...

[flick40]

This is a generality and not specific to the life guards. I'm no expert on the era but I think we place too much emphasis on uniformity and what the French provided etc. This Jacobite army was not well paid, nor well equiped and what it lacked in materials it made up for in spirit. (however short that fuze may have been) Events moved very quickly and men brought with them what they had so there were probably those who had ECW era cuirass and equipment left overs. There may be no (current) evidence that entire units wore the cuirass but that doesn't mean it was devoid on the field. So for painting purposes I see no harm in throwing in one or two for looks.

just my $.02
Joe

[turrabear]

My favourite bugbear - He also has Clare's dragoons in fur caps and yellow coats....

that thought hit me as well as soon as herman murtagh name was mentioned.

[andy thompson]

The Lifeguard will be all of six models on the table, but it would be neat to have them in armor.

Hi Clarence, just out of interest, the two Troops of lifeguard and one of Horse Grenadiers seem to have been of an equivalent size to the standard 9 troops of horse. Somewhere in the region of 600 men. That's a good excuse for fielding them as 2 squadrons for BLB depending on what you're doing with your 9 Troops Vs 12 Troops Regiments otherwise.

Andy

[obriendavid]

The wargamer in me was just wondering if it was possible. The Lifeguard will be all of six models on the table, but it would be neat to have them in armor.

That's what I plan to do Clarence, they might/might not have had them but they look so cool in the illustration that I want my Guards unit to have them.
Cheers
Dave

[turrabear]

the hall plates show them with also out the graham turner illustration of the death of marshal schomberg also show's them with out a cuirass as well. the drawing of the death of st ruth in michael mcnally's battle of aughrim also appears to rule out the use of the cuirass.but there is so little information on the jacobite army it would be hard to rule it out.

[Captain of Dragoons]

The Lifeguard will be all of six models on the table, but it would be neat to have them in armor.

Did the Life Guards at the Boyne not have two Troops.

Where as it is a Life Guard Troop wouldn't be a bit bigger then the standard Troop - Say a Life Guard Troop can be a Sqn for BLB2, therefore two Tps + two Sqns?

cheers
Edward

[Captain of Dragoons]

Should have read all the replys - I see Andy came up with the same idea.

cheers
Edward

[turrabear]

The Lifeguard will be all of six models on the table, but it would be neat to have them in armor.

Hi Clarence, just out of interest, the two Troops of lifeguard and one of Horse Grenadiers seem to have been of an equivalent size to the standard 9 troops of horse. Somewhere in the region of 600 men. That's a good excuse for fielding them as 2 squadrons for BLB depending on what you're doing with your 9 Troops Vs 12 Troops Regiments otherwise.

Andy

an account of his majesties royal camp near dundalk friday june 19th 1699 from the journal of john steven's put's the first troop of hores gurads at 200 private gentelmen ,2 lieutenants 1 cornet,1 guidon ,4 e exangs(think this must be ensigns), 4 brigadiers and 6 sub brigadiers according to steven's the second troop had the same make up . sapherson puts both troop's at 21 officers and 200 men. unfortunatly neither troop's of horse guards or the troop of horse grenadiers is mentioned in estat des troupes du roy d'angleterre en irlande 1689.