french greanadier headware at the boyne

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turrabear
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french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:36 am

i was wondering if anyone has any information on the head gear worn by the french regiments at the byone . did theywear mitre cap', bearskin cap's or just the same hat as the line infantry companies.
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by simon boulton » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:09 am

As far as I know the French grenadiers during this period wore the same hat as the line companies. It was later into the 18th century before they Began to wear the bearskin cap in certain regiments,
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:54 pm

thanks for that.
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by j1mwallace » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:34 pm

Yep. Same hats. More lace on their uniform though
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Arthur
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by Arthur » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:26 am

j1mwallace wrote:Yep. Same hats. More lace on their uniform though
Err, actually no. French grenadiers did not wear laced coats, unless they belonged to a unit whose musketeers also had buttonhole lace, such as Du Roi. Grenadiers wore the exact same coats as the rank and file, the accoutrement and moustache being the distinguishing features of the grenadier company along with the flintlock musket and curved sabre. A typical late C17th French grenadier would look something like this :

Image
Image

Grenadier figures with buttonhole lace are a mistake repeated by most manufacturers, notably Front Rank and Ebor, probably because they are all using the Giffard plates as a reference. The problem is that Giffard used the Gardes Françaises - a regiment in which everybody wore laced coats - as his models, and the uniforms are not representative of those worn by the overwhelming majority of line infantry regiments.

Headgear was most commonly the black felt hat mentioned above, worn increasingly cocked in the French army by 1690. Some regiments also had their grenadiers in stocking caps with cloth turnups which closely resembled those worn by the French dragoons, but it is not known which units adopted this practice. The figure below shows such a cap (and the buttonhole lace disposition clearly marks this lad as a Gardes Françaises grenadier)

Image
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by Russian James » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:18 am

In defence of Ebor, usual disclaimer applies, their grenadiers with bearskins, whether Dutch, Austrian or generic, do NOT appear to have lace.

I am using their figures as my Scots artillery and Fusiliers for precisely that reason...
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:30 am

many thanks for your help gentelmen
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by simon boulton » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:28 pm

Arthur, do you know which regiment the drummer is from in the top plate?
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:47 am

would the zurlauben regiment's grenadiers have worn the floppy hat as well .or would they have had a grenadier cap instead. just asking as the regiment was a german/walloon regiment in french pay.
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by Arthur » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:46 pm

Sorry for the late answers, haven't dropped by for a little while.

Here's a better pic of the plate above :

Image

The drummer is described as belonging to the Regiment de Jovyac (or Jovynes, depending on how you decipher it). Haven't had the time to look at my list of regiments raised between 1689 and 1697, but I suspect it's a mistake on the part of the illustrator. Bit odd though, as he has the Provence sergeant right (brown coats lined red for the rank and file, but the sergeants wore red coats until 1696).

Re the Zurlauben grenadiers, there is no evidence pointing to caps (other than the stocking cap shown above, and there's no proof the unit ever used them). Foreign regiments were dressed and equipped just like their French counterparts (the colour of their coats notwithstanding), and cocked felt hats are the most likely option for the Zurlauben grenadiers.
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Re: french greanadier headware at the boyne

Post by Arthur » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:48 pm

Russian James wrote:In defence of Ebor, usual disclaimer applies, their grenadiers with bearskins, whether Dutch, Austrian or generic, do NOT appear to have lace
Yes, Paul Hicks did the other nationalities correctly. It's the French grenadiers I was specifically referring to, not the rest of the range.
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