Galloper guns

[Russian James]

Gents, would the crew of galloper guns or battalion guns be uniformed as Artillery or as the battalion?

I'm looking at Scots / Irish around 1690...

[Churchill]

Ray.

[simon boulton]

I believe the battalion guns were served by men from the infantry regiment they were part of with assistance from a professional gunner.

I thought there were galloper guns doing this period but don't know for sure,
best wishes,
Simon

[obriendavid]

Jim,
There were no such thing as battalion guns at this time!!!
Only light artillery (3 or 4 pdrs) and yes you could move them by manhandling them, but at this time were not placed with battalions of infantry. The British had battalion guns at Culloden in 1746, but not before.Ray.

Where did you get this information from Ray?
Any sources I've read have made comment about the Brits and Dutch having very light guns with each battalion and called them battalion guns, I would be very interested to read your sources.
Cheers
Dave

[Churchill]

Ray.

[obriendavid]

David, the source is from Iain Stanford's book "Marlborough goes to War"
Barry and I have spoke on this very subject on the forum before and he agreed with me.
Ray.

Thanks for that Ray, interesting stuff!
I wasn't trying to say anyone was right or wrong I was just interested in what info you had. Most army lists for the period list battalion guns for the forces mentioned but perhaps they are getting confused with the light guns you mention in your source. When I had read various books in the past I always wondered if the 'battalion' guns were included in the total number of guns for the army or were they extra, I think you have answered my querie.
Cheers
Dave

[Churchill]

Ray.

[j1mwallace]

I sometimes think that modern re enactors throw people off a bit. They seem to use small battalion guns a lot.
I've never been able to find any evidence for the use of battalion guns in the period.

[maciek]

Any sources I've read have made comment about the Brits and Dutch having very light guns with each battalion and called them battalion guns

I suspect the same authors that claim they used "superior platoon fire".

It sometimes happen that infantry regiments were contracted with "regimental guns" (e.g. Swabians and Franconians in WSS) but it meant merely that contingents were expected to come with a number of small calibre guns, some times with and some times without crews to man them (a cost of a gun was substantial, not a crewman).
These guns weren't employed with regiments (battalions) but rather placed under a overall command of master of the ordonance and grouped in small batteries, or distributed along the front of infantry.

As Churchill said, it wasn't before SYW period that battalion guns were permanently fixed to infantry units and trained to cooperate with them.

[Motorway]

Three pounder guns were used in the way that Maciek describes by the States' army as well, but general opinion was these weren't too effective.

(Kanonnen en houwitsers, De Staatse veldartillerie in de eerste helft van de
achttiende eeuw, O. van Nimwegen, Armamentaria 32)

[Friedrich August I.]

I dont want to hijack this thread but by what Maciek brought forward I like to put down something too.
Most of my sources make the use of 'Battalion guns' depending on the nations army organisation. There were countries who took their gained knowledge from what happened in the TYW and developed systems like the light guns, the Swedes had in use, like the Scots did. Some countries formed their own standing army with a House-Artillery company who would provide personal to man the guns in case of war like the Saxons did. The English must be counted to the number of nations which took the lessons of the wars they fought, i.e., against France, and formed their Royal Artillery as late as 1716.

So, depending on the Nation we are talking about, the Personal manning the guns were either trained gunners or blokes with fuzes.

The term Battalion Guns goes back to what the Swedes used in the TYW. The Regimental gun was what Maciek referred too, guns taken out of the Stocks of an Arsenals or Zeughaus and detached to certain Regiments only to be placed in front of those units OR grouped together to support those Foot Regiments they were detached to.

A detail for Ray referring to the first invention of 'battalion guns'
It was as early as 1728 when Saxony fielded their first 2pdr Geschwindstuecke, who was dedicated to be attached in a supporting role to the Regiments. This is known because in that year King Augustus the Strong gave a pair of these guns as present to the King of Prussia. The system and design was created by a Saxon Artillery officer named Obmaus who served in the GNW with General Wackerbarth.
For ease of reading here is a linke related to the above subject:
http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php? ... References

Hope that didnt go to far and Jim forgives my the slight thread high jacking.

Cheers,
Günter

[Churchill]

Ray.

[Rebel]

Ref Irish Scots 1690 - Light guns on attachment (cf. Crom Castle) but otherwise in light artillery batteries.....

[Russian James]

OK, maybe battalion guns was the wrong term to use.

Gunter, no problems with your addition to the debate

Forgive what may appear to be a naive question, but how were 'galloper' guns used then?

[Churchill]

Ray.