Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

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Clibinarium
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Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Clibinarium » Wed May 01, 2013 7:45 pm

I'm trying to work out the composition of the Maison Du Roi cavalry (c.1690) in terms of BLB six figure squadrons (assuming them to represent a body of roughly 200-250 men)

Gardes du Corps ; Four companies of 400 men each= 4 pairs of squadrons,
48 Figures.
(Not sure if they were a battlefield unit though, other than escorting the King?)

Gendarmes de la Garde, Chevaux-Legers de la garde; One 200 man company each= 1 squadron each
12 figures

Mousquetaires de la garde; Gris et Noirs; One 250 man company each= 1 squadron each
12 figures

Grenadiers a cheval; One 250 man company= 1 sqaudron.
6 figures

Not part of the Maison du Roi, but still elite,
Gendarmerie de France; Sixteen companies of varying size, averaging maybe 120 men per company, seemed to have been paired into eight squadrons, something between 160 to perhaps 400 men, say 250 for game purposes= eight six figure squadrons?
48 figures

This is just a quick calculation based on not much more than the Osprey! Does it look right? Would trying to field all these elites completely unbalance the army; if so what should be taken and what left out?
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by maciek » Wed May 01, 2013 8:22 pm

I found this in my archive (taken from Lace Wars Yahoo group) but without exact date (could be 1690 or 1702 as well)

The breakdown of the Maison du Roi was as follows:
Divided into two divisions -

The Maison Rouge - 1060 men
Grenadiers a Cheval - 140 men
Gendarmes of the Garde - 230 men
Chevauleger of the Garde - 230 men
Musketeers (Grey Horses) of the Garde - 230 men
Musketeers (Black Horses) of the Garde - 230 men

Maison Bleu (Garde du Corps) - 1720 men
Scottish Company - 430 men
1st French Company - 430 men
2nd French Company - 430 men
3rd French Company - 430 men

The companies of the Maison were usually maintained at 99-100% operational strength.


In WSS Garde du Corps was full combat unit. I would suppose that earlier it took part in the battles too.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Arthur » Wed May 01, 2013 11:35 pm

Clibinarium wrote:I'm trying to work out the composition of the Maison Du Roi cavalry (c.1690) in terms of BLB six figure squadrons (assuming them to represent a body of roughly 200-250 men)

Gardes du Corps ; Four companies of 400 men each= 4 pairs of squadrons,
48 Figures.
(Not sure if they were a battlefield unit though, other than escorting the King?)

Gendarmes de la Garde, Chevaux-Legers de la garde; One 200 man company each= 1 squadron each
12 figures

Mousquetaires de la garde; Gris et Noirs; One 250 man company each= 1 squadron each
12 figures

Grenadiers a cheval; One 250 man company= 1 sqaudron.
6 figures

Not part of the Maison du Roi, but still elite,
Gendarmerie de France; Sixteen companies of varying size, averaging maybe 120 men per company, seemed to have been paired into eight squadrons, something between 160 to perhaps 400 men, say 250 for game purposes= eight six figure squadrons?
48 figures

This is just a quick calculation based on not much more than the Osprey! Does it look right? Would trying to field all these elites completely unbalance the army; if so what should be taken and what left out?
The figures you provide are generally correct though you may expect period documents to occasionally differ, especially in the case of the Grenadiers à cheval who were either 150 or 250 strong depending on which source you believe. I wouldn't get too hung up about the discrepancies in numbers though, as the overall organisation of your force seems sound to me - and creating wargames units inevitably involves some degree of simplification and stylisation anyway.

The Maison du Roi was always brigaded as a whole, although its components would not necessarily all be engaged in a given battle. The Gendarmerie de France always served separately from the Maison du Roi : they were never brigaded with the Household troops (nor for that matter with the line Chevau-Léger regiments) and they were sometimes seen serving on a different theater of operations : for instance, the Maison du Roi was in Flanders for most of the Nine Years War while the Gendarmerie served both there and on the Rhine until 1693 (fighting at Leuze in 1691 along with the Gardes du Corps and Grenadiers à Cheval) and afterwards with Catinat's army in Italy where they distinguished themselves at the battle of Marsaglia. Similarly, the Gendarmerie de France was in Italy in 1701-1702 and in Germany in 1703-1704, while the Maison du Roi served in Flanders.

Fielding the entire force would indeed create something of a wargaming behemoth, so limiting yourself to the Maison du Roi and leaving out the Gendarmerie de France might prove a sensible option, all the more so as the Maison du Roi offers more uniform variety than the Gendarmes, who all pretty much wore the same red uniform. It also depends on whether you want to recreate a specific action or are more looking for a generic force.

But if you don't mind doing shedloads of household cavalry and feel like wargaming the battle of Leuze I mentioned above, you can field yourself a French force made up almost exclusively of Maison du Roi and Gendarmerie de France squadrons (all 25-odd of them, with a couple of line dragoon regiments thrown in for good measure). Of course, you'll also have to do the 75 allied squadrons needed to fight this royal lot :lol:
Last edited by Arthur on Thu May 02, 2013 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Arthur » Thu May 02, 2013 12:15 am

Oh yes, almost forgot : the Gardes du Corps did earn their keep and were also battlefield troops as Maciek says.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Graf Bretlach » Thu May 02, 2013 1:27 am

This is from the etat militaire for 1748, the organisation seems to have been fairly constant (some of the names would be different)

Maison du Roy (strengths for 1742, Grenadiers à cheval 1748 )
Gives each unit 2 escadrons

Part of - Garde du dedans du Louvre
Les 4 compagnies des Gardes du Corps (1,924 officers & men)
1.Gardes du Corps – Noailles 381
2.Gardes du Corps – Villeroy 381
3.Gardes du Corps – Charost 381
4.Gardes du Corps – Harcourt 381

Part of - Garde du debors du Louvre
Les Gendarmes de la Garde (1 compagnie) 242 officers & men
Les Chevaux légers de la Garde (1 compagnie) 241 officers & men
Les Mousquetaires gris (1 compagnie) 225 officers & men
Les Mousquetaires noirs (1 compagnie) 225 officers & men
Les Grenadiers à cheval (1 compagnie) 160 officers & men
Total 1,093 officers & men

Not part of the maison du Roy

Gendarmes (strength officers & men – 1,370)
Numbers are the escadron

1.Gendarmes Ecossais 86
1.Gendarmes de Bretagne 86

2.Gendarmes Anglais 86
2.Chevauxlégers de Bretagne 85

3.Gendarmes Bourguignon 86
3.Gendarmes d’Anjou 86

4.Gendarmes de Flandres 86
4.Chevauxlégers d’Anjou 85

5.Gendarmes de Berry 86
5.Gendarmes de la Reine 86

6.Chevauxlégers de la Reine 85
6.Chevauxlégers de Berry 85

7.Gendarmes du Dauphin 86
7.Gendarmes d’Orléans 86

8.Chevauxlégers Dauphins 85
8.Chevauxlégers d’Orléans 85
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Graf Bretlach » Thu May 02, 2013 1:41 am

From the order of battle 1691 under the duc de Luxembourg

right wing (right to left)
Horse grenadiers 2 esc.

Garde du corps
2e Duras 2 esc.
3e Luxembourg 2 esc.
4e de Lorge 2 esc.
1re Noailles 2 esc.

Grand Mousquetaires 2 esc.
Gens d’armerie 8 esc.
Maréschal de camp Monsieur de Neuchelles – commanding the household troops

Never understand how the horse grenadiers are often listed as 2 squadrons but strength is only enough for 1

Earlier at the siege de Mons the garde du corps, gendarmerie and the grenadiers (1 sqn this time) are part of the cordon, while the Grand Mousquetaires (4 esc.) are at the Kings quarters.

excuse my mixed English/French
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Graf Bretlach » Thu May 02, 2013 1:51 am

From the 1694 order of battle under the Dauphin/Luxembourg

Monsieur de Gassion commanding the troops of the King’s house.
right wing (right to left)
Grenadiers, du Roy 2 esc.
Noailles 2 esc.
Duras 2 esc.
Luxembourg 2 esc.
Lorges 2 esc.
Gens d’armes 1 esc.
Chevaux légers 1 esc.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by janbruinen » Fri May 03, 2013 10:44 am

We now only need the figures to represent these elite cavalry!!
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Graf Bretlach » Fri May 03, 2013 7:26 pm

Looking at 1693 they seem to have grown along with the rest of the French army.

As part of Boufflers army
Royal-dragons 4
Cailus-dragons 4
Chantreau-dragons 4

Grenadiers 1 esc.
Garde du corps 12 esc. (3 detached under the Dauphin)
Gensdarmes 2 esc.
Chevaux légers 2 esc.

Carabiniers 5 esc. (2 detached under the Dauphin)

Reserve
1. Mousquetaires 4 esc.
2. Mousquetaires 2 esc.
(3 being detached under the Dauphin)

The 8 escadrons of gendarmes were in Luxembourg's army but were then detached under the Dauphin.

unless there has been some double counting going on, it looks like mousquetaires have grown to 4 esc. and the garde du corps to 3 esc. although this maybe to do with the reduction in the establishment of the standard horse company to 40 persons (or 120 per escadron) because most French units increased in escadrons/bataillons during this period, a lot going to 4 or even 6 escadrons/bataillons.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Dfogleman2 » Fri May 03, 2013 8:11 pm

janbruinen wrote:We now only need the figures to represent these elite cavalry!!
I have done the Maison du Roi cavalry with Front Rank Figures on 60mm wide bases. Each Garde du Corps company has two bases of three figures. All the others have one squadron/company of two bases of three figures. Since all the Maison would be in the front line, it takes up a lot of frontage on the table. I can imagine what it would look like if each GduC company had twelve figures. And that does not include the Gendarmerie, which would also be on the front line.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by janbruinen » Sat May 04, 2013 7:35 am

According to Belhomme," l'armee Francaise en 1690" the strength of the maison du roi was the following:

Garde du corps
4 compagnies, each of 6 brigades, each brigade of 8 officers and 71 men or (with compagnie staf of 3) a total per compagnie of 477 men (50off+427men). Total corps strength (incl staff) 1911(203off+1708men).

But as each compagnie had to deliver a brigade as direct service to the king the field strength of each compagnie would be 397 (41off+356men) for a total corps strength of 1588 (164off+1424men).
They would operate as 8 squadrons.

Gendarmerie de la garde
One compagnie in 4 brigades, each brigade of 65 (9off+56men) plus a staff of 4 gives a total of 264 (39off+225men)
One brigade was needed for service near the king.
In peacetime one squadron.

Chevau-léger de la garde
One compagnie for a total of 262 (37 off +225men) also in 4 brigades
They also had to deliver one brigade for the kings' service
In peacetime 1 squadron

Mousquetaires
2 compagnies with a compagnie strength of 302 (17off+285 men) each divided into 4 brigades .
Each compagnie delivered one brigade for the kings' service.
They were formed in 1 squadron in peacetime

Grenadiers à cheval
One compagnie of 150 (10off and 140men) in 3 brigades.
They were formed in 1 squadron

As mentioned above the Gendarmes, Chevau-léger and Mousquetaires formed in peacetime one squadron per compagnie. But Belhomme mentions that during the campaign the ranks of these compagnies were swelled with voluntaires so that during the campaign their squadrons doubled.
So there were 2 gendarmes, 2 chevau-léger and 4 mousquetaires.
What their strength became isn't mentioned but this should explain their various strength mentioned in OOB's.

This adding of voluntaires isn't mentioned for Garde du Corps or Grenadiers à cheval.

Belhomme mention a total of 17 squadrons for the Maison (8 Garde du Corps, 4 Gendarmes and Chevau-léger, 4 Mousquetaires and 1 Grenadier.)
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Clibinarium » Sat May 04, 2013 10:28 pm

janbruinen wrote:We now only need the figures to represent these elite cavalry!!
Yep, that's part of what I'm mulling over. Formations that are very small require the same amount of sculpting as those of large formations, but could be on the edge of being cost effective to do.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by janbruinen » Mon May 06, 2013 9:52 am

Garde du Corps, Gendarmes en Chevau-léger would almost be the same as line cavalry, maybe more eleborate hats and linings to the coat. As far as I know, officers/standard bearer and trumpeter of the line wore already more eleborate coats/hats so only extra figures of men would be needed imho. (although a timbalier would be nice)

Grenadiers a cheval could maybe be made from a french dragoon figure with a different head ?

Mousquetiers would indeed be more difficult.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Arthur » Tue May 07, 2013 12:38 am

Graf Bretlach wrote:Looking at 1693 they seem to have grown along with the rest of the French army.

As part of Boufflers army
Royal-dragons 4
Cailus-dragons 4
Chantreau-dragons 4

Grenadiers 1 esc.
Garde du corps 12 esc. (3 detached under the Dauphin)
Gensdarmes 2 esc.
Chevaux légers 2 esc.

Carabiniers 5 esc. (2 detached under the Dauphin)

Reserve
1. Mousquetaires 4 esc.
2. Mousquetaires 2 esc.
(3 being detached under the Dauphin)

The 8 escadrons of gendarmes were in Luxembourg's army but were then detached under the Dauphin.

unless there has been some double counting going on, it looks like mousquetaires have grown to 4 esc. and the garde du corps to 3 esc. although this maybe to do with the reduction in the establishment of the standard horse company to 40 persons (or 120 per escadron) because most French units increased in escadrons/bataillons during this period, a lot going to 4 or even 6 escadrons/bataillons.
Quite a few mistakes, confusions and oddities in this particular orbat.

First, the three dragoon regiments weren't a part of the Maison du Roi, being line dragoon units instead. Furthermore, French dragoon regiments had been reduced from four field squadrons in the 1670's to just three by the early 1690's, so the four squadrons mentioned for each do not tally with known regimental strengths. Ditto for the newly raised Royal-Carabiniers which were a chevau-léger regiment, albeit an elite one with a royal title. The five squadrons are entirely acceptable as this was a very large unit divided into five brigades which were de facto regiments. But Maison du Roi the Carabiniers were not.

Secondly, the number of squadrons for the Gardes du Corps and Mousquetaires is somewhat inflated. As Jan quite correctly explains, even at the peak of their expansion there were never more than two squadrons each of Mousquetaires Noirs and Mousquetaires gris - as opposed to one each in peacetime - and the four Gardes du Corps companies were each divided into two 200-odd man squadrons, for a grand total of eight squadrons rather than twelve.

Jan's post is right on the money when it comes to the actual number of squadrons fielded by the Maison du Roi and I'd definitely go with Belhomme on this.
Last edited by Arthur on Tue May 07, 2013 2:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Representing the Maison Du Roi Cavalry.

Post by Arthur » Tue May 07, 2013 1:01 am

janbruinen wrote:Garde du Corps, Gendarmes en Chevau-léger would almost be the same as line cavalry, maybe more eleborate hats and linings to the coat.


Not quite, I'm afraid : unlike the Gardes du Corps and the Gendarmerie de France, the Chevau-Légers and Gendarmes de la Garde were not issued with carbines and were armed with sword and pistols only. So they'd need specific figures.
janbruinen wrote:Grenadiers a cheval could maybe be made from a french dragoon figure with a different head ?
Almost, but then again not quite : the shoulder belt which supported the powder flask and bullet bag was wider than the one used by dragoons, and the grenadiers' curved sword was also different :

ImageImage
janbruinen wrote:Mousquetiers would indeed be more difficult.
They'd require specific figures. In 1685, the traditional long blue cassock worn by the mousquetaires was replaced by a blue sleeveless garment worn over the red coat and known as a soubreveste, which was specific to the corps. This is what the dismounted figure on the left is wearing (note the difference with the mounted mousquetaire's cloak) :

Image
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