Huguenot Officers

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quindia
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Huguenot Officers

Post by quindia » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:21 pm

Your opinions please on the sashes worn by Huguenot officers... I am sure this is a case of 'we really don't know' because I haven't found a reference so far but I am working on the Huguenot brigade for Ireland. I am tempted to paint the officer sashes in red so I can use the grey coated infantry for a number of different units with flag swaps, but I am sure a case could be made that they wore orange for King William III. I also know white sashes were worn by Huguenots in earlier periods but I don't know if this would be appropriate in 1690.

Thanks in advance...
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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by Dfogleman2 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:45 pm

I don't know for sure, but when in doubt I usually go with the colors appropriate for the government that paid the "foreign" regiments. Off the top of my head I don't recall if the Huguenots were in English or Dutch pay, or a combination.
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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by quindia » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:21 pm

Hmmm... Interesting idea. I just read about Williams's treaty with Denmark that stated the troops provided for the invasion of Ireland would be paid for from English coffers, but I think the Huguenot regiments were raised completely for Dutch service... Maybe Glozier's book has details on the logistics...
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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by flick40 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:48 pm

Due them in an orangey/red. Then when using them for Dutch say the color is orange/English red. :)
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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by wdrenth » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:03 am

Dfogleman2 wrote:I don't know for sure, but when in doubt I usually go with the colors appropriate for the government that paid the "foreign" regiments. Off the top of my head I don't recall if the Huguenots were in English or Dutch pay, or a combination.
The Huguenots that were formed into three regiments of foot and one of horse in early 1689 were in English pay. Large part of the officers had come over to England as reformed officers with William III in November 1688. That means they were attached to existing regiments, but not serving on the establishment. (With establishment, one should think of the standard officer complement of a regiment: a captain, lieutenant and ensign per company, etc.)

These Huguenot regiments were raised on the same lines as English regiments (thirteen companies), and appear in the army estimates not different than 'normal' English regiments. Well, the only difference is that these Huguenot formation had a large number of those reformed officers attached. This was a way of keeping those officers provided for, and usually they replaced those that were killed.

In 1698 the Huguenot regiments were placed on the Irish Establishment, and reduced in early 1699 since they were considered non-British. My latest book (http://www.drenthpublishing.nl/halfpay1 ... y1699.html) gives a full list of these Huguenots, and information on the regiments.

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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by Dfogleman2 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:27 am

wdrenth wrote:
Dfogleman2 wrote:I don't know for sure, but when in doubt I usually go with the colors appropriate for the government that paid the "foreign" regiments. Off the top of my head I don't recall if the Huguenots were in English or Dutch pay, or a combination.
The Huguenots that were formed into three regiments of foot and one of horse in early 1689 were in English pay. Large part of the officers had come over to England as reformed officers with William III in November 1688. That means they were attached to existing regiments, but not serving on the establishment. (With establishment, one should think of the standard officer complement of a regiment: a captain, lieutenant and ensign per company, etc.)

These Huguenot regiments were raised on the same lines as English regiments (thirteen companies), and appear in the army estimates not different than 'normal' English regiments. Well, the only difference is that these Huguenot formation had a large number of those reformed officers attached. This was a way of keeping those officers provided for, and usually they replaced those that were killed.

In 1698 the Huguenot regiments were placed on the Irish Establishment, and reduced in early 1699 since they were considered non-British. My latest book (http://www.drenthpublishing.nl/halfpay1 ... y1699.html) gives a full list of these Huguenots, and information on the regiments.

best regards,
Wienand
Does this mean that the rank and file were recruited in the British Isles?
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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by quindia » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:17 pm

No...

The four Huguenot regiments which William used to invade Ireland were formed after the prince's arrival in England. It is clear that the Huguenots who joined the four regiments came straight from Holland. William's Huguenot soldiers were not recruited predominantly from among those refugees already resident in England.

Shortly before his forces arrived in Ireland (on 1 April 1689), William of Orange formed four Huguenot regiments from among the large number of Huguenot soldiers who had followed him to Great Britain and were serving in companies throughout the Dutch Army, in his own personal household regiments and as volunteers in the invasion force of 1688.


These passages are from Matthes Glozier's book The Huguenot Soldiers of William of Orage and the Glorious Revolution of 1688. As the war went on, English recruits were added, but the majority of the units were made of Huguenots from Holland.

In any case, I think an argument can be made for red sashes! Thanks, guys...
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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by wdrenth » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:20 pm

Good question. My understanding is that the origin of rank and file mattered not that much, even less than that of the officers. Only in 1698 the whole question of 'Brits-only-in-our-regiments' started to play a role. The Journal of the House of Commons is full with requests for naturalization.

However, my best guess with these Huguenot regiments is that most were of Huguenot origin. Even so, most would have been men of certain quality who served in the ranks (a large proportion of the Huguenot refugees were obviously those who had connections and means to leave France, many of the poorer classes of Huguenots stayed behind). This was certainly the case with the regiment of horse. For the foot it may have been a mixture, and there are stories that quite a few Catholics (very much not Huguenot) were removed from these regiments in Ireland in 1689/90.

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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by Captain of Dragoons » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:57 am

IIRC there was also a regiment of Dragoons that was payed for by both Maritime powers for service in Savoy?

During the WSS the Dutch continued having Huguenot regiments in their pay but they served in Spain.

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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by wdrenth » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:57 am

This was the regiment of dragoons commanded by Marquis de Miremont. It came into existence around 1690, and was formed mainly in Swiss from amongst Huguenot refugees residing there. The regiment was paid for by the Dutch Republic.

The regiment served in Piedmont and Savoy, and somewhere in 1695 came to Flanders and was placed on the English Establishment. In 1698 it was transferred to Ireland, and disbanded in 1699.

In 1706 a brigade of Huguenot regiments was raised in England, officered mainly by Huguenots from the Irish list. This brigade was intended for a descent on the French coast (Charente), to aid the Huguenot uprising in the Cevennes. This expedition is known as, amongst others, Lord Rivers' Expedition.

However, this scheme was dropped and the regiments ended up in Valencia in early 1707.

Later in the war, in 1708/09, a number of Portuguese regiments was raised that were officered by Huguenots (and some British).

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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by Hastati » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:12 am

I would avoid red as it was the traditional colour of French Catholicism. The Huguenots in the Wars of Religion often went into battle in their plain white commoner's "camise" and the officers wore white sashes. White is the colour most closely associated with the Huguenots for religious and political reasons (Louis Bourbon). The three Huguenot infantry regiments at the Boyne seem to have been in a very light grey and this makes sense to me, it being very close to their traditional colour. I would paint their sashes either white or orange. I am doing du Cambon's regiment for my army and will give the officers white sashes as a nod to these brave Huguenots.
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Re: Huguenot Officers

Post by quindia » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:43 am

You're right , of course, but I went for red in the end. I just can't help but think that something that made them stand out from the other units in the army should be mentioned somewhere. These weren't obscure garrison units - they were in the front of the action throughout Ireland, yet aside from one van Wyck painting that might show at least one unit in blue facings, the only description ever given are the grey coats. I have decided to paint one battalions with grey facings and two with blue. Orange sashes would probably be a safe pick too, but the red sashes will let me use the unit for a multitude of different battalions from both sides.
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