count schombergs forces at the boyne

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turrabear
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count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:44 pm

I was wondering if anyone had information about the forces involved in count schombergs flank march at the boyne. Michael McNally names the 5 infantry reginments in trelawneys brigade but only mentions 2 of the nine dutch cavalry regiments (gardes te paard and gardes dragoons)and only two of the seven English cavalry regiments (the life guard and the earl of oxfords blues). would anyone have any information about the other cavalry regiments involved.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by Rebel » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:04 pm

Will try to get a moment to check my files.

Kindest Regards,


Mike.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:38 pm

that would be great be a great help to me if you could.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by Churchill » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:30 am

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by markdo » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:33 pm

Lenihan say Eppingers Dutch dragoons were in the 5am group, along with Trelawneys foot brigade. There were 5 small guns too. Not sure which regts were in that " brigade", though.
Around 9am Douglas set off with another 12 thousand men. Lenihan says they came from what had been the front line, mostly.

I seem to remember reading elsewhere that the regiments thus sent off to feint/flank/envelop were mostly English but am not sure where I read that.

One way of working it out is to take the known OB and subtract the named Dutch Dane Huguenot and Irish protestant regts we have named as crossing the hard way, QED the names missing moved west.

Hope this helps.
Mark
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:12 pm

Churchill wrote:Hi turrabear,

One of the English horse regiments present was his own regiment previously raised by the Earl of Devonshire.
I only know this because they went on to serve during the WSS and I've done them for my Blenheim project.
In 1751 they would be renamed the 7th Dragoon Guards.

Image

Scarlet Red coats with Black facings.
Sorry I can't help you with any of the others, but Mike (aka Rebel) will know.

Cheers,

Ray.
many thanks for the info ray . every bit of information is a great help to me . by the way love the cavalry figures.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:18 pm

markdo wrote:Lenihan say Eppingers Dutch dragoons were in the 5am group, along with Trelawneys foot brigade. There were 5 small guns too. Not sure which regts were in that " brigade", though.
Around 9am Douglas set off with another 12 thousand men. Lenihan says they came from what had been the front line, mostly.

I seem to remember reading elsewhere that the regiments thus sent off to feint/flank/envelop were mostly English but am not sure where I read that.

One way of working it out is to take the known OB and subtract the named Dutch Dane Huguenot and Irish protestant regts we have named as crossing the hard way, QED the names missing moved west.

Hope this helps.
Mark
hi mark trelawneys brigade was made up of the following regiment's. kirke's,trelawney's erle's hastings and herberts
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by Graf Bretlach » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:03 am

My first stab at Williams troops at the Boyne, so corrections/additions welcome, most is from Walton with my additions

Walton says (p. 106)
Maynard Schonberg
All the cavalry of the right wing, some dragoons of the left wing, 5 field pieces and Trelawney’s brigade.

Brigadier Charles Trelawney (3,100 men)
2F Kirke (Senior) – 656 men
4F Trelawney – 553 men
13F Ferdinando Hastings (later cashiered for defrauding his men) – 606 men
23F Herbert’s – 600 men
Carles (Earles) (since disbanded) – 693 men

The right wing comprised nearly all the English horse (except Wolseley’s Inniskillings) and numbered about 8,000

From his oob (p. 104)
Unusually brigades seem to be split into first and second line, so some regiments had troops in both.

This is all the horse he puts on the right wing.

Brigadier Abraham van Eppinger
English Life-Guards – Grenadier troop of 95 men
Eppinger’s dragoons (Dutch Gardes dragonders)
Cunningham’s Inniskillings? (6D)

Brigadier de Meme
1st Troop Life-Guards – Scarborough
3rd Troop Life-Guards – Churchill
Schomberg’s horse (7DG) 2s
Coy’s horse (5DG) [Walton has a question mark here] 2s
Laniers horse (1DG) 3s
Russell’s horse (since disbanded) 2s
Byerley’s horse (or Beverley) (6DG) 2s

Brigadier Haut Saplig.
Rÿtessel (Riedesel? Cr672c)
Mompaland
Portland (Gardes te paard)
Langston’s horse 2s (since disbanded)
Neamsville

Left wing he has

Brigadier Edward de Villiers
Schonberg
Ginckel
Ogen
Inniskilling horse
Fuel
Sertal
Horse-Guards 3s
Schack
Boncour
Villiers horse (2DG) 2s
Donep


Dragoons of the left – Brigadier Anthony Heyford
Wolseley’s Inniskillings? 3s
Heyford dragoons (1D) 3s
Le Cossen
Leveson (3D) 2s

Brigadier Schack probably had some of Villiers regiments

He numbers the cavalry as (excl officers and serjeants)
812 Danish
1,683 Dutch
395 French
1,270 British dragoons
2,991 British horse
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:16 am

Graf Bretlach wrote:My first stab at Williams troops at the Boyne, so corrections/additions welcome, most is from Walton with my additions

Walton says (p. 106)
Maynard Schonberg
All the cavalry of the right wing, some dragoons of the left wing, 5 field pieces and Trelawney’s brigade.

Brigadier Charles Trelawney (3,100 men)
2F Kirke (Senior) – 656 men
4F Trelawney – 553 men
13F Ferdinando Hastings (later cashiered for defrauding his men) – 606 men
23F Herbert’s – 600 men
Carles (Earles) (since disbanded) – 693 men

The right wing comprised nearly all the English horse (except Wolseley’s Inniskillings) and numbered about 8,000

From his oob (p. 104)
Unusually brigades seem to be split into first and second line, so some regiments had troops in both.

This is all the horse he puts on the right wing.

Brigadier Abraham van Eppinger
English Life-Guards – Grenadier troop of 95 men
Eppinger’s dragoons (Dutch Gardes dragonders)
Cunningham’s Inniskillings? (6D)

Brigadier de Meme
1st Troop Life-Guards – Scarborough
3rd Troop Life-Guards – Churchill
Schomberg’s horse (7DG) 2s
Coy’s horse (5DG) [Walton has a question mark here] 2s
Laniers horse (1DG) 3s
Russell’s horse (since disbanded) 2s
Byerley’s horse (or Beverley) (6DG) 2s

Brigadier Haut Saplig.
Rÿtessel (Riedesel? Cr672c)
Mompaland
Portland (Gardes te paard)
Langston’s horse 2s (since disbanded)
Neamsville

Left wing he has

Brigadier Edward de Villiers
Schonberg
Ginckel
Ogen
Inniskilling horse
Fuel
Sertal
Horse-Guards 3s
Schack
Boncour
Villiers horse (2DG) 2s
Donep


Dragoons of the left – Brigadier Anthony Heyford
Wolseley’s Inniskillings? 3s
Heyford dragoons (1D) 3s
Le Cossen
Leveson (3D) 2s

Brigadier Schack probably had some of Villiers regiments

He numbers the cavalry as (excl officers and serjeants)
812 Danish
1,683 Dutch
395 French
1,270 British dragoons
2,991 British horse
thank you so much for taking the time to share your information with me. .
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:36 pm

sorry forgot to ask you which book did you take the o.b from.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by Rebel » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:46 pm

"Walton" is Col. Clifford Walton's "History of the British Standing Army".
It's about 100 years old and is the basis for Lawson. Original's are rare and expensive but IIRC there are a number of print on demand versions of varying quality. Will deffo try to dig out my notes tonight which will show the actual unit names e.g. Brigadier Haut Saplig is "Holtzapfel"
and Mompaland is "Monpoullion's Horse"....

Laters,



Mike.

That said, a good rule of thumb is indeed that the entire right flank move (both Douglas and Schomberg jnr) were predominantly of English origin, basically because William didn't trust them.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by Dfogleman2 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:11 pm

Rebel wrote:"Walton" is Col. Clifford Walton's "History of the British Standing Army".
It's about 100 years old and is the basis for Lawson. Original's are rare and expensive but IIRC there are a number of print on demand versions of varying quality.
I got a good print on demand copy through Amazon. Well worth 32 buck, or so.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... 1378908571
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by Rebel » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:09 pm

Dannie, problem with print on demand is that it is very hit and miss. I got lucky and picked up an original for Stg.100 (I don't think the seller knew what they had) but friends of mine have had POD's that weren't worth the paper they were printed on. That said, AFAIK the Naval and Military Press in the UK do do a reprint of it.

- Mike.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by turrabear » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:56 pm

ordered it from amazon this afternoon . bit expensive £32.00 for a reprint . fingers crossed I get a good copy.
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Re: count schombergs forces at the boyne

Post by Graf Bretlach » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:33 pm

Yes Colonel Walton is the guy, excellent source of information, he obviously spent a lot of time in government records, it is full of uniform and equipment snippets and other stuff.

here is a funny one on page 45 talking about the 14th Regiment.

. . . The Regiment also wore white shirts and white neckcloths, and had metal swords . . . .

I believe there is a volume of colour plates too, but not seen it.
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