laced tricornes, or not?

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Geudens
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laced tricornes, or not?

Post by Geudens » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:44 am

Most drawings I found show tricornes of rank & file laced, but MAA "Marlborough's Army 1702-11" (plate F fig 3) shows the (standard?) "sentinel, regiment of foot" - in this case Erle's 1709) with a plain black tricorne. I wonder if some of the regiments (always depicted with laced ones) would also be wearing plain hats or would that depend on re-supply or the whim of the Colonel?

Thank you for your opinion,

Rudi
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by Geudens » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:59 am

Seems more difficult than I imagined... :roll:
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by Churchill » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:16 pm

Ray.
Last edited by Churchill on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by obriendavid » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:42 pm

Most uniform guides say what sort of lace each regiment was supposed to have but since this was at the whim and expense of the Colonel I'm not sure if everyone had lace or if they did perhaps it was just kept for parades?
I've taken the decision with my troops that the only units I've given lace to are Guard units and officers which allows them to stand out more from the rest of the forces.
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by j1mwallace » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:05 pm

Fashion seems to have been.
Brass buttons, yellow lacing
Silver / white metal buttons, white lacing
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by stecal » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:09 pm

I believe that particular picture is an attempt to show the ordinary soldier in campaign dress, thus the brown linen gaiters, cooking pot & backpack. It is very possible that the lace was removed or never provided (as in North America during the F&I or AWI) since it would certainly be ruined by the weather, sweat, dirt & blood.
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by barr7430 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:06 pm

This is back to whether you want you unit to look like toy soldiers or mini representations of reality.

In an age when colonels paid for everything themselves and then claimed money from the government one thing is certain, whatever men wore it would be cheap. It then follows that it would fall off if crap quality or be protected if good quality. Think about taking lace 'off' or putting it back 'on'. How would that be done? It was probably flimsy white or off white tape. Sewn on? pinned on? glued on? It probably fell off after a couple of weeks if it was ever on in the first place.

Wear a white shirt whilst mowing the lawn or cutting some wood in the forest. Keep it on whilst you fire up the BBQ. Get caught in the rain with it, wear it next to a pair of new non colour fast jeans and keep them both on for a week.
Look at the colour of it after that time..... not white anymore!
Now transpose those gentle modern outdoor activities into the early 18th century to a man who can barely feed himself from day to day, sleeps outdoors, has no soap, smokes a pipe, probably uses his hat as a basket, wears it 20 hours a day on campaign for 6 months.... what does it look like?
Think the discussions about hat lace are not really too relevant unless you want to depict units straight from the tailors for a Royal parade. Otherwise, in an age of non colour-fast vegetable dyes, dirt, no washing, no shaving, sleeping under sheet tents or in barns .. there would be no hat lace or it would be brown. You can sleep at night Guedens without worry.

The whole discussion can be easily extended to uniforms. You wouldn't go far wrong with this painting guide:

Thomas Erle's sentinel 1704:1709

Hat : misshapen patchy dark grey floppy hat pinned up on one side, no discernible lace. Possible sprig of greenery pinned onto the crown.

Coat: brown or possibly dirty pink with light brown or greyish cuffs. Many patches, hems fraying, few buttons if any remaining.

Waistcoat: stained yellow brown sleeveless and possibly buttonless rag.
Shirt: dirty grey
Breeches: indeterminate colour stained with food, urine, faeces, and dirt.
Socks: none
Shoes: flapping like open mouths or with rope or string holding them together.
Neckcloth: possibly in pocket, - around hat, - around lock mechanism of musket.
Carrying: extra sacks of possessions and plunder, bundles of twigs for lighting campfires, possible dead animals such as rabbits or fowl.

Lank, dirty hair, unshaven, possibly missing teeth, infested with lice and quite possibly carrying some medical condition relating to skin, lungs or sexual health.....

Yup, yer average WSS infantryman :wink:


Think I'll do a unit of those soon :lol:
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by Geudens » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:40 pm

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your efforts & comments. I think there is something to learn from each and every one of them, so I decided to paint some of my units with lace and others without. I also think there is a lot of truth in what barr7430 says, but I'll pass on painting the urine & faeces stains... :lol:
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by EvilGinger » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:44 pm

Probably too small to be visible at 25/28mm scale any way. However grubby & more than a little tatty around the edges would be well in keeping.

:evil: Ginger
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by Ben Waterhouse » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:26 am

The important thing, is that they are your toys, so paint them how you like.

I like both Barry's and Ray's take on representing troops; mine are somewhat in the middle veering towards an Annual Inspection in the next week or so.
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by Geudens » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:44 am

Ben Waterhouse wrote:The important thing, is that they are your toys, so paint them how you like.
I couldn't agree more, although any of my soldiers still showing some unpainted metal will have to run the gauntlet! :lol:
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by j1mwallace » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:33 am

Very well written there Mr Hilton. Fully agree!
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Re: laced tricornes, or not?

Post by Geudens » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:34 pm

barr7430 wrote: Lank, dirty hair, unshaven, possibly missing teeth, infested with lice and quite possibly carrying some medical condition relating to skin, lungs or sexual health.....

Yup, yer average WSS infantryman :wink:

Now you've done it! She-who-must-be-obeyed has read this too and has thrown all my WSS figures in the bin! :lol: :lol:
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