English regiments in Spain, 1703-1711

[Arthur]

While researching English/British uniforms for the Almansa campaign, I came across the booklet below. It was originally written in Catalan and received an English translation a couple of years ago.

http://issuu.com/llibresdematricula/doc ... es_de_matr

I would be quite interested to hear others' take on the uniform info featured in the book, as it does not necessarily tally with other existing sources. I'm rather taken with Gorges' regiment in blue coats lined orange circa 1706-1707 : potential shortages of red cloth may account for the crimson coats they wore until the siege of Barcelona being replaced with blue ones, though I don't know what source was used for this - possibly a clothing bill from a local Catalan merchant ?



Anyone cares to chime in on Mordaunt's regiment as well ? God Save Catalonia has the unit in red coats faced red, though the regiment later had yellow facings as Gibson's circa 1715.




Of course, facing colour may well have switched from red to yellow between 1707 and 1715, Mordaunt's becoming Windsor's in 1709 .

[Juan Mancheño]

I, too, would like to know your opinion, as people really interested in this period of History and not as secessionists that are looking for an History.

[janner]

I, too, would like to know your opinion, as people really interested in this period of History and not as secessionists that are looking for an History.

Can we keep the pro-unionist politics separate from a mutual love for toy soldiers?

[Juan Mancheño]

Yes, of course. I´m really interested in to know if that blue uniform is possible.
My comment has come because I have read some other works from that same source.

So, was there in Spain a blue uniformed English infantry regiment? I would like to paint that!

[karamustafapasha]

I am building armies for Spain and I asked my friend about the British blue coats - he knows a lot about it.

He doesn't know for sure as he doesn't know what the source was used by the booklet. But he strongly suspects the booklet has misunderstood the source. There is a Dutch unit called Palm's/Leefdael's which is heavily involved in the fighting around Barcelona at that time - often with Gorge's regiment or Gorge who was a brigadier at the time. The uniform of this unit is the same as the one the booklet gives for the British unit ......

My friend hadn't noticed the Mordaunt uniform and has no info on that. He has read the Catalan version and he thinks this could comes from a deserter report, but he wasn't sure/couldn't remember. If so it could be that it was just what the particular deserter was wearing but equally it could be what the unit was wearing.

I hope that helps.

[Arthur]

I, too, would like to know your opinion, as people really interested in this period of History and not as secessionists that are looking for an History.

Can we keep the pro-unionist politics separate from a mutual love for toy soldiers?

Well, Xavier Rubio's take on the subject is obviously very Catalan-centric. I don't think I will be offending anyone by saying he isn't a neutral or unbiased author and we'll leave it at that

More problematic from an academic perspective is the absence of proper footnotes which would identify the sources used for the uniforms. I came across the book on the Desperta Ferro blog, which states that the blue uniform for Gorges' regiment is based on indisputable period evidence unearthed by the DIDPATRI research group in Barcelona. But as Karamusfapasha point out, this evidence is nowhere to be found in the book, which is a bit of a methodological issue. Quoting your sources to back your statements is research rule number one when dealing with a tricky and poorly documented subject such as this one.

Appealing though it may be from a visual standpoint, the blue uniform attributed to Gorges' also strikes me as potentially odd, hence my call for further input and opinions.

Re Mordaunt's uniform, good point regarding the report on deserters, Karamustafapasha. This is an issue AWI buffs will be familiar with as quite a few uniform descriptions for Washington's continental army are based on deserter notices which may not accurately describe what the men wore before they legged it : it was probably a smart move to ditch your issue uniform - or what was left of it at the end of a campaign -before deserting if you wished to slip away unnoticed and avoid being caught.

[MNFS]

Does anyone know when the Royal Fusiliers adopted the blue facings?

[janner]

It was a royal regiment under James II, initially the Ordnance Regiment and formed from the Tower Guards. So I would say from its inception in 1685.

[Arthur]

When formed by Lord Dartmouth in 1685, the Royal Fusiliers had red coats lined yellow and fusilier caps with yellow front plates. John Tincey and Alan Sapherson concur on yellow facings for the 1690's and the Nine Years War. The blue facings seem to have been adopted during the early years of the WSS : Charles Stewart Grant states that the 7th Foot switched to blue in 1702, but does not state his source.

[janner]

Do either Tincey or Sapherson give their source, Arthur?

[Graf Bretlach]

From the regimental history 1685 pg. 4

Formed with 12 companies of fusiliers and 1 of miners

uniform - scarlet coat, lined yellow, grey breeches and grey stockings, yellow cloth caps ornamented with military devices similar to those later adopted for grenadiers, other regiments wore round hats with broad brims turned up on one side.

I'll look for the intro of blue.

[Graf Bretlach]

From Cecil C.P. Lawson pg. 76

1686 red lined yellow etc etc brass buttons
1689 Tillroy camp - rd lined yellow
1702-03 A deserter - red lined blue.

From the same source
Dragoons wore fur cap or laced hat
picture of Williams arrival at Brixham shows them, similar to what the grenadiers wore at the time.
Blenheim tapestries also shows these dragoon fur caps.

sounds a bit like the French who wore the cap or hat at least upto the 1760's

[Arthur]

Do either Tincey or Sapherson give their source, Arthur?

Tincey uses a primary source dated June 30th 1686 - A list of King James' Army on Hounslow Heath as they lay encamped. Sapherson doesn't provide footnotes outside of the bibliography featured at the end of his booklet, but I suspect he was mostly relying on Lawson and the Tilroy list for the 1685-1698 period.

[janner]

Thanks Arthur