Uniform Guides for the Boyne

A section devoted to questions and answers for this period.
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quindia
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Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by quindia » Mon May 16, 2016 1:39 pm

The League of Augsburg and Quindia Studios are very proud to present The Wargamer's Guide to Uniforms of the Battle of the Boyne.

These are just the first of many and they are available in the shop now. You can download a free sample for The Battle of Penny Burn Mill (actually from the second planned series, but it ties in with our Historicon game) for a limited time (link in the blog post).
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by turrabear » Mon May 16, 2016 5:37 pm

Already got my copy.fantastic work. But I, my a bit confused about the Scots guards being at the boyne.according to the Scots guards association they weren't.
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by quindia » Mon May 16, 2016 6:23 pm

Ha, Barry! See what we started?

Some sources DO list them there, but I certainly won't argue with the Scots Guard! I'll let Mr. Hilton wade into this...

Thanks for the kind words... :D
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by arthur1905 » Tue May 17, 2016 5:25 pm

After a panic yesterday when I found my printer was out of ink, a quick shopping trip and know all printed out in it's very own folder,
Thank you guys
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by profjohn » Tue May 17, 2016 11:01 pm

I've just ordered these guides and I'm really looking forward to seeing them. Its a new period for me and having access to these will kick start my resolution to invest in those Pendrakens.
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by jambo1 » Wed May 18, 2016 5:17 am

These guides look brilliant and just what I need, I have a collection of Dixon, Foundry, Parkfield and Wargames Factory plastics but I have been thinking about changing over to Warfare Miniatures and this guides have made my mind up!!! Here we go!!! :D
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by barr7430 » Wed May 18, 2016 4:18 pm

The Scots Guards question is very interesting and is one of a series of 'anomalies' in various accounts when you cross reference sources. They are not named as the Scots Guards they are named as Douglas's in several sources. I consulted the Succession of Colonel's guide and in that year he was colonel of the Scots Foot Guards.
If he was there and his regiment wasn't, that is of course a possibility but who then were Douglas's? If you consult the Sapherson OOB he lists not only this regiment but 2 battalions of the 1st Foot Guards and 1 battalion of the Coldstream Guards at the battle too. He actually calls them the Guards Brigade.
Sapherson did not collate this list but will have transposed it from another source. Check most other lists and none of the English Foot Guard regiments are there. In fact they may actually have been in Flanders at the time also I would have to check that. I would never have the temerity to criticise the SG but there is some inconsistency in the various accounts.
McNally lists them (as Douglas's).
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by barr7430 » Wed May 18, 2016 4:19 pm

The whole point of the guides was to continue the digging process for those interested...

Aah! it's good to be back!
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by turrabear » Thu May 19, 2016 9:32 pm

Personally think that the Scots guards may have actually been on home service before they went to flanders.
I,m actually offshore just now so I will need to check this when I get home but I, my sure that mark Allen mentions a regiment either called Douglas or had a colonel called Douglas in his series of articles in wargames illustrated .
As for sapherson book I take it that it,s his book on king Williams war in Ireland. The thing in my opinion about sappers on is that his books are at time,s inaccurate and out dated more modern research has shown this two good examples are his book on king Williams Dutch army and his book on the Danish army.
Last edited by turrabear on Thu May 19, 2016 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by turrabear » Thu May 19, 2016 9:34 pm

Sorry forgot to post this love the series of plate,s on the boyne and pennymill.can,t wait to see the next series.
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by Graf Bretlach » Fri May 20, 2016 12:42 am

A few comments

The Scots Guards - one battalion went to Flanders in 1689, the second one shortly after, neither battalion was in Ireland in 1690.

James Douglas, the colonel was a Lt-General at this point, so (as is common at this period) the last place you tend to find them is with their regiment, in fact he played an active part in the Irish campaign, as opposed to his Regiment which did not.

very simple explanation for the mistake, not only was Douglas Lt-General, Colonel and captain of the Scots guards but also Colonel and captain of a newly raised regiment (his take home pay must have been good) this regiment was commissioned by William III in 1689, raised in Warwickshire and actively served in Ireland throughout, originally William, Earl of Kingston was Colonel but at some point before August 1690 was replaced by Douglas (Kingston dying of apoplexy in September) the regiment and officers got a good report, although some of the men were missing certain items through some dodgy commissary in Chester before leaving for Ireland. suffered badly at the first siege of Limerick.

I have been looking for Douglas's commission for an exact date, maybe tomorrow.

The only Regimental list for the Boyne should be George Story's history available on Google books, unfortunately some 19/20th century authors tend to rearrange the list into later naming conventions (and introduce errors) and remove the names of all foreign regiments and generally mess things up. Fortescue was always good for this. (I'm not blaming the author of the work under discussion in this thread)

just been reading some interesting confusion over some (of many) the Hamiltons, how do you manage when they have exactly the same names, both active in Ireland, both colonels of Williamite regiments, both Governors. . . who am I talking about?
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by GrahamC » Fri May 20, 2016 5:02 am

Just a quick thanks for producing these guides. Whilst debate continues regarding were they there or not (isn't that what makes history fascinating) the guides are an excellent idea, well produced and informative.
Well done :)
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by barr7430 » Fri May 20, 2016 7:32 am

The great point about developing these guides in pdf in the first instance is that we can amend them as new information comes to light. GB's input is pure gold if we can see some of the detail and validation. If you are prepared to participate in the process GB then Clarence and I are very willing to amend the content and re issue a new version of that particular sheet and provide it for all those who have purchased the pdf. When we are happy with all final versions we are considering going to print.
So let's advance together!
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by Graf Bretlach » Sat May 21, 2016 9:34 pm

Always happy to help, other commitments allowing.

In Story's abstract of the army review at Finglass 7/8th July 1690 OS there is a battalion called Lieutenant Gen. Douglas with 648 men excl officers, it is 13th in the list so not the Scots Guards. (no British foot Guards listed)

Camp of Drogheda Douglas's is the junior regiment in Stuart's brigade, no guards.

details on Douglas's regiment and his colonelcy of same is mostly in Dalton's commission registers, unfortunately not the date as yet. you can start on page 113 vol.3 (the Dundalk reports) but references are scattered around

some details of the Scots Guards in Flanders are in the regimental histories, also Dalton.

the regiment was disbanded at the peace so detail is thin.
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Re: Uniform Guides for the Boyne

Post by Glorfindel » Sun May 22, 2016 9:59 am

I've spent a considerable time building up a lineage document for the 'British' army (based on a close review of Dalton and many other sources). This covers 1572 - today and includes reference to a Regiment of Foot raised in 1689 with successive Colonels as follows :

1689 : William, Earl of Kingston (8th Mar 1689)
1690 : James Douglas (Sept 1690)
1692 : Henry Rowe (5th Feb 1692)
1695 : Thomas Brudenell (13th Mar 1695)
1698 : (Disbanded)

Hope this helps.

Just email me at the following address if you want a copy :
phil(hyphen)carrington(at)virginmedia(dot)com

Cheers,

Phil
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