Tricorns in French Army

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Gordon Hazelton
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Tricorns in French Army

Post by Gordon Hazelton » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:47 pm

Does anyone know when the French first started wearing Tricorns and is there any evidence they had them in LOA period?

Is there any difference between horse and foot?
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Re: Tricorns in French Army

Post by barr7430 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:35 am

The tricorne question is the one that will not go away (together with the when did pikes fall out of use in the western armies?).

You'll get as may opinions as there are members of fora Gordon which indicates that no definitive answer is available.

My (I hope) neutral opinion is that men were probably pinning up their hat brims informally at one, two or three positions from the earliest period of the broad brimmed hat therefore, many will have worn a three pointed hat in the 17th century.

When the fashion actually became military regulation is the debatable bit. It is probably best to concluded from the opposite angle - many men were still wearing there hats pinned on two or less sides during the WSS but some were wearing them pinned on three sides.

You may be agonizing over what figures to buy for a particular collection during a particular campaign. Make the decision that suits you. No one is in a position to gainsay your choice.

Have had the experience of wearing a 'tricorne' for a weekend as a film extra I can affirm that it was none of the following:

Black (despite belonging to the uniform kit of a British redcoat circa 1746) - it was a shade of blue grey
Robust - It was bashed, flimsy, soggy and mishapen
Tricornered - the sides kept flopping down as the material was sodden in the weather and poorly constructed.

The wardrobe department of a costume company may well have looked after their assets better than a 17/18 century poor sod who spent most of his life in the open air and elements so infer what you will.

It is likely by the end of the WSS that more men were wearing tricornes than not but that is clearly still not the definitive answer that you seek.
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Re: Tricorns in French Army

Post by Clibinarium » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:24 pm

Here's an unexpected source. French Soldiers in Siam in the late 17th Century. One clearly in tricorn the other not.

Image

Yet another possible branch for the period; French vs Siamese 1688.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Bangkok
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Re: Tricorns in French Army

Post by barr7430 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:14 pm

yup, I already have that one up my sleeve Clib!.. thanks for adding to the tricorne controversy! The siege of Bankgkok was in 1688! so, this potentially means tricones in 1688 if the art is contemporary. Of of course, it could have been done later and referenced Frenchmen of that later time!
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Re: Tricorns in French Army

Post by arthur1905 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:13 pm

Are, there you have it then,

One picture of a Tricorn in 1688 confirms that everyone was wearing one the same year :D :D :D :D ,

sorry, could not resist as we all love to hang our hat on some new piece of possible evidence,

nice find though.

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Re: Tricorns in French Army

Post by Friedrich August I. » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:38 am

One thing is for sure - the use of the Tricorne - on behalf of the Military crawled from the West to the East. It started in France with the Fashion of the Royal Court of the Sun King.

It was a behavior of this age to sent Members of the ruling families of Europe on a journey towards France to learn the Youngster Etiquette, courtly manners and adjucation in knightly behaviors.

So described in the Notes of the 2 Years Journey of Friedrich August, later known as Augustus II, King of Poland, second born Son of Johann Georg III, Elector of Saxony. In the youthful age of 16 he was introduced to the French King in 1686 and stayed there for about 6 month. It got mentioned that the elite class allready wore Tricornes while the common people still carried those well known, broad brimmed, one side up hats. So with the aknowledgement of the courts that there was a new fashion afoot the elite class started to invent the Tricorne in the Army - Officers raised and owned Regiments - as those Commanders wanted to stick out of the mass of the unit. Saxony did not invent the Tricorne until 1706 when the Army resurfaced after the disastrous events in the Northern War.
How Russia got those Tricornes? Well, Peter the Greats travel towards the West should explain this easely (Grand Embassy of Peter the Great).
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Re: Tricorns in French Army

Post by barr7430 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:29 am

The French officer riding down Soi Cowboy definitely looks like an upper class 'un! So he is perhaps the original - tourist in Bangkok - that is why he was put under siege by 40,000 angry Siamese!

Thanks Gunter, you are a man of great knowledge! 8)
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Re: Tricorns in French Army

Post by j1mwallace » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:26 am

We,ve had conversations on this before
You know our somewhat relaxed attitude to this subject but know for a fact that the conversation went

Versailles 31st December 1699
right lads make sure them shapeless 'ats is on right

Versailles 1st January 1700
Right lands , new century , fold up the edges. Looks much better lovely boy !
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Re: Tricorns in French Army

Post by Friedrich August I. » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:49 pm

j1mwallace wrote:We,ve had conversations on this before
You know our somewhat relaxed attitude to this subject but know for a fact that the conversation went

Versailles 31st December 1699
right lads make sure them shapeless 'ats is on right

Versailles 1st January 1700
Right lands , new century , fold up the edges. Looks much better lovely boy !
:lol: :lol:
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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