No colours for the fusiliers?

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Gunfreak
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No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Gunfreak » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:32 am

I can't seem to find any flags for Welch Fusiliers. I assume they did have some flag on a pole. But what to use? St. George cross and Welsh Flag?
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Dfogleman2 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:35 pm

Truls,

What period are you looking for? The regiment was Ingoldsby's from 1693-1705. It be became the Royal Regiment of Welch Fuzileers in 1723. It appears that the flag did not have the Prince of Wales feathers, etc. until then.
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Friedrich August I.
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Friedrich August I. » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:16 pm

It seems that the 23rd have a US-based website :D

http://rwfia.org/wp/

And it looks far better than the British based one

http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Gunfreak » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:24 pm

Dfogleman2 wrote:Truls,

What period are you looking for? The regiment was Ingoldsby's from 1693-1705. It be became the Royal Regiment of Welch Fuzileers in 1723. It appears that the flag did not have the Prince of Wales feathers, etc. until then.
I'm thinking 1704-and out.
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Old John » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:23 pm

In Wargamer's Guide to the Uniforms of Williamite Right Wing at Battle of the Boyne by Barry Hilton & Clarence Harrison

On Plate C is shown Herbert's Regt, forerunner of Ingoldsby's / 23rd Welch Fusiliers , the flag is dark blue with a red cross lined white , in centre of cross is a lion rampant in white, uniform also dark blue with white facing and breeches, buff leather work

I'm not sure if Welch Fusiliers carried colours during WSS so am contacting RWF Museum tomorrow for clarification on the subject, and will ask for an illustration if possible, as well as type of fusilier cap worn

Hopefully post answers afterwards, good job i live fairly local to museum
cheers Old John
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Gunfreak » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:06 am

Thank you.

They must have carried something? As the Colours were used to keep command and control on the unit.
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Old John » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:44 am

Just been in contact with RWF archivists regarding Colours carried between 1689 to 1715, dates of when change to red coats from blue, date of first issue of fusilier caps and if the Colours were carried in Battle of Blenhiem, plus any illustrations/descriptions if possible

Hopefully an answer from them in a few days, will post any info asap

cheers Old John
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Gunfreak » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:52 pm

Oh thank you!
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Old John » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:48 am

My pleasure, I have found that researching early history of regiments from 1660s to 1720s many records were not kept, lost, hidden away in family and regimental archives

cheers Old John
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by lee sherman » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:00 pm

Was it because the fusiliers were at first Artillery train guards so were just companies dotted about the brigades and wasn't really used as a full battalion on the field so had no flags? Like the grenadiers had no flags.. I could be wrong though
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Russian James » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:38 pm

For the Royal Regiment of Artillery, the guns themselves ARE the colours, it may have been the same for the fusileers as they were originally the artillery train guards...
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Friedrich August I.
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Friedrich August I. » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:28 pm

Russian James wrote:For the Royal Regiment of Artillery, the guns themselves ARE the colours, it may have been the same for the fusileers as they were originally the artillery train guards...
Most Fusiliers of the other countries did as you say. Swore their loyalty to the guns.
„Macht Euch Euren Dregg alleene“

"Sort your filth out by yourself!" The King of Saxony Friedrich August III., at his abdication 1918, referred to the quarrels in the parliament and the squabbling within the provisional government.
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Old John » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:12 am

Another main function of fusiliers was to prevent the civilian drivers legging it with the horses at first sign of danger

Have a feeling that RWF/23rd didn't receive their Colours until after WSS, but i could be wrong, RWF did fight as a battalion at Blenheim

Still awaiting answers from RWF archivists, delay caused by an overload of requests for service records of individual soldiers during WW 1

cheers Old John
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Gunfreak » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:20 am

The Scots Fusiliers have colors for the WSS period. So I would assume the Welch also had some rag on a pole.
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Re: No colours for the fusiliers?

Post by Old John » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:24 am

"So I would assume the Welch also had some rag on a pole."

I wouldn't say that round here !!!!!!

cheers Old John
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