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D-DAY Reflections

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:44 pm
by barr7430

as always it was a challenge but it was also a blast 8) .

Want to thank Gary Martin - patience of a saint, knowledge of a sage... well done to you!!

On reflection, I was extremely pleased with the ease with which FoW transferred to such a big multi player setting. Gary and I overlooked a small but extremely significant aspect of the rules which I think would have satisified the 'baying hordes' lobbying for OPPORTUNITY FIRE and consequently thinking the less of FoW for its lack of recognition of this point.

FoW does not allows attacking teams to come closer than 2 inches to an enemy team unless it is going to assault it. If two bunkers, teams, strongpoints etc were seperated by a gap of 4inches or less then NO hostile team could pass through that gap without contradicting the above rule. This alone would have negated the 'tip toe through the tulips' approach adopted by the British on Sword. Thus... no need for opportunity fire. Defensive fire in the assault phase takes care of the passivity issue with teams under attack.

Comments as always, welcome on that point.

With regard to D+14 (DISPOSABLE HEROES/COFFIN FOR SEVEN BROTHERS) Game. I made an error of judgment in setting up the scenario. I belieived that the individual focus of this rule system would make the flow fast and easy. What I probably failed to realise was that in its original form it is designed for roughly 30 figures per side on a 4 x 4 foot table. We absolutely stretched this beyond the max by using up to 40 vehicles and 150 men per side. The distance of the Churchill's from the action was the most marked symptom of the problem for me. Sorry Paul :oops:
Overall however the response from our gang seemed to be very positive(even if you were just being nice to me :wink: ). The LoGW is a learning experience as well as a waregaming one and as always, the most enjoyable aspect for me was the company :D .

Thanks for another great weekend chaps.

For Posterity(there was some debate during the weekend about this). Here
is the chronological history of the LoGW games. Dates are more of a problem for me.

1. Magnusiew Counterattack(19th Panzer Division) Poland 1944
2. Dresden 1813
3. Hohenbrunn 1813
4. Flussgarten 1813
5. Back of Beyond
6. Back of Beyond
7. Bastille Day 1815
8. Waterloo 1815
9. Pirates 18th century
10. D-DAY June 1944

The future
11. Ligny 1815
12. Wild West
13. Peninsular War 1809?
14. Samurai Age of Battles
16. Crimean War 1854-55

Did I miss anything :?

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:49 pm
by thinredline
that was a great weekend, not my period and 15's definately not my scale, but that weekend was not one to be missed. 8) 8)
Thanks to Barry for the organising, and for the umpiring - ably assisted by Gary. :)
Martin, your Sherman's stood up admirably (especially the two blocking the bridge, - Duncan gave them 60 seconds - "Bud Kellerman" made them last 6 Hrs - and they only took 50% casualties :shock:
Best point of the weekend - Duncan guesting in my stead, and taking out a Geman Anti Tank gun covering Dog white sector on "Bloody Omaha" :D That provided a gap in Gerry's Line
Dale - your Landing Craft- more than enough restage the "real thing" and a Naval contingent that I would be proud of.
As for the "eye candy", well it was there in volume, and in quality. As for the company - excellent :wink:
Can't wait till November :D

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:58 pm
by sharnydubs
Barry, having bought a copy of the rules and carrying them with me, shame on me for not looking for the assault within 2inches/opportunity fire equivalent rules. Glad to see the rules do cater for this. Next time Angus ! I can't believe I didn't argue for that point !! :wink:

A test of how successful a game is has to be how much stuff you buy / dig out of cupboards for the period within the first 24 hours after the game. Well I've been sorting out my Corgi tanks so I guess that's me back in the zone !

thnaks again


Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:17 pm
by barr7430
You are very welcome to have those two Tigers back Peter :D

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:22 pm
by Angus Konstam
Barry et al,

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed myself. Thanks for the weekend.

While I'm not overly fond of 15mm, the D-Day game looked good, and flowed well. I was also impressed with Gary's umpiring, whose patience in the face of shameful intimidation from the "sharnydubs" contingent was nothing short of saintly!

However, for me the highlight was the Sunday game, which looked truly inspirational. I'm sure I wasn't the only one to comb the web when I got home, looking at 1/50 scale tanks and 28mm infantry... I can't say I found the rules much of a problem, but then I was in the quiet sector of the table - on the safer side of the river.

If you don't consider DH suitable, then I'd be interested in any other rules suggestions, as it looks as if us Edinbuggers will be launching into 28mm WW2 with a will. Apart from Disposable Heroes, other possibilities include the Chris Peers rules, and those new ones - Rules of Engagement or suchlike.

Once again, thanks for the game, and the excellent company. "Adrian Wittman ("The -- Panzer Ace") was kind enough to extend an invitation to Ligny, so I'll look forward to seeing you all again then. Oh, and this time I've got "sharnydubs" number! 8)

I've posted pictures of both games on the Journal section of my anorak website -

Best Wishes,

Angus K

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:04 pm
by barr7430

I very much like DH :D My comments were basically a self-critique in that I think I expected too much of the rules which are essentially designed for a two hour skirmish with 30 or 40 figures per side. Stretching them to the limit with a mega multi player effort such as ours was perhaps a wee bit ambitious.(A bridge too far!!)

My experience of these rules is:
1. Quick
2. Great appreciation of squad and support weapons
3. Plenty of action
4. Plenty of player focused 'crucial decision making'
5. Armour rules good. No super tanks not even Tigers or Panthers
6. Decisive
7. Morale good
8. Stuff we left out for quickness such as grenades etc - also add flavour
9. Low outlay/exposure - forces generally small - 25-35 figures.

So I thoroughly recommend them.

And of course.. they have opportunity fire :wink:

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:20 pm
by big-gazza
great week end chaps and good to meet you all.

FOW game was a great eye opener. Always good to play with new players as they always look at the game diferently and make you think a bit more about the rules. Also nice to play the beach assault which was something new. Makes me want to try more things with FOW than just straight battles.

The DH game looked fantastic. Some great battles and a lot of bravado from the paras. Great to play such a large game and I've learned a lot from it.

So, thanks again for the great weekend


Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:30 pm
by obriendavid
I just gutted that I missed this one. :cry: as looking at Barry's and Angus' pics you all had a whale of a time, which goes without saying at these bashes.

Barry you can be assured that I gave Coke a hard time at his wedding for his bad planning but I was very impressed with the village area in EK. I was even more impressed that my car still had four wheels on it when we left the reception :wink:


Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:37 pm
by barr7430
You Toffs from Edinburgh don't know your lucky. EK is like a Zen Garden compared to Kirriemuir on a Saturday night. 12 year old drunks were hanging around the CurrieMuir(Indian takeaway :roll: ) frightening the visitors(me)
We missed you Dave... you Toff :lol:

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:26 pm
by PaulMc

Great weekend with two fantastic games. Thanks to everyone who was there and not just for the gaming part, the apres battle chats are never dull. Even Kirriemuir itself gets in on the act (last year Wendy & this year "Kwenchy Cup", what next?!)

All the best


Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:26 pm
by TigerLili
Thanks to everyone for a great weekend. Both games went very well, the rules worked, and the good guys won - what more could you ask.
Full marks to the oranisers/umpires aka the Barry and Gary show.

I really like the picture of the British tank coming over the bridge with the Para's "thus far and no further" chalkline - almost as good as using upturned dinner plates as mines!

Looking forward to Ligny but relieved that I don't have a pile of figures to paint.

All the very best,



Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am
by Blucher

Would just like to add to all the comments made. Yes, big thanks to Barry and Gazza for the games. Really, really enjoyed both. Thanks to all of the Gentlemen for your 'company' both during the Games and 'in the bar'. Only down side is that Charles has now got me 'fearing the time i get to 50!'...anyway.
Sorry to my fellow Germans on the 'DH' game. Herr Wittman was not his self on Sunday morning- too much 'Schnapps' on Saturday night. As i had 'allocated' the 'small Tiger' of the squadron to his 'Herness' he got distracted! However, those Commando's in the wood took a pounding!

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:09 pm
by barr7430
typical of you Adrian... trying to drum up some kind of propaganda victory from a very timid and un-Leibstandarte performance :lol: You lurked almost as much as Schnapps in the Napoloenic games :wink: ...Colin's Paras with their nasty machine guns and sten-anti tank machine guns might have scraped the camo paint off of your Tiger's turret :shock: ... you might even have got mud on the tracks if you'd gone through that ploughed field :lol: - then it would have been back to Paderborn for a jet-wash n' wax :wink:

Normandy 1944 - Fantastic and thank you.

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:05 pm
Dear Barry et al, I have been away for the last four days hence the delay in thanking you for a quite excellent weekend. As I said, I think it was my first modern game since my father and I played with Airfix figures and dinky, Rocco and other WW2 vehicles. It certainly lived up to expectations and I thought the"Flames of War" rules provided a very realistic outcome. The high point of Day One for me was my infantry assault on Colleville-sur-mer which over exploited, taking three houses, and was bounced back out and distroyed by Adrian. Not to my advantage but a great war gaming moment and illustrated a nice rule mechanism.
On the Sunday my high point was "Audy Grant" leaping single handed on to one of Dale's Panther tanks, opening the hatch and immobilising it (only to be permanently immobilized himself shortly after).
NO low points!!
You did a fantastic job in keeping it all going Barry and likewise Gary Martin did a really great job.
All in all great weeknd, great wargaming, and great company both during the playing and the apres wargaming!
Can't wait for Ligny!
Yours aye, Charles