November 20th/21st 2010

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obriendavid
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Post by obriendavid » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:28 am

That's a gppd shot of Colin's Swiss about to bite the bullet.

Cheers
Dave
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kiwipeterh
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Post by kiwipeterh » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:04 am

barr7430 wrote:yet more pics up tonight
Excellent. Please keep 'em coming (much like the allies! :lol: ).

Salute
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barr7430
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Post by barr7430 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:02 am

yes Peter, more to come i a couple of days. Off to work now!
"If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are probably right"

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Post by kiwipeterh » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:05 am

Thanks Barry. I'll look forward to them.

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Post by Dale » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:31 pm

An excellent game which was in the balance up until the last move of the game. Well done to Adrian and Kevin for planning the whole thing so well.

Commiserations to Peter N who took rolling 1s, 2s and 3s up to a fine art. Throw those green dice away Peter. I generally throw like Peter but I had a lucky weekend by and large with my infantry throwing Peter's Pavlovskis out of the fleches and then standing their ground behind rather well engineered defences. An impossible and almost impregnable line.

After initial success with my artillery they were wasted by cavalry charges on my flanks from Peter McCarroll and Kev the pesky Prussian.

Peter N, our only point of disagreement in the rules centered round my built up area. The confusion arose about what can be done with the part of the brigade unable to enter the BUA, where the brigade general should be situated and where the Divisional general should be to have any influence on events. The explanation varied with each person we consulted hence the poncing about by my brigade general both inside and outside the BUA.

I'll ask Barry for a definitive answer and that will end all uncertainty.

To finish on a positive note, Barry that's the best I've seen the rules working and they coped with a dozen players, thousands of figures and a very large table. Maybe you could invite the negative reviewer to one of these large games to see the rules played in the scale they were designed for.
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Post by sharnydubs » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:22 pm

Thnaks Dale.

Yes, Barry the issue of zone of control of a brigadier was contentious. As each "village / town" was effectively a 2 foot square the question was what was the zone of control for the brigadier within the town- was it
a) the town tile i.e. the 2 foot square or
b) the town tile and the 9" no go area outside the town
And if the brigadier was standing within 9" of the town does he have a zone of influence over the garrison within ?

For the next game I can see I need to learn a few lessons for Mr O'Brien who did a great job in storming his town. Looks like the best approach is to throw an entire division into the fray and preferably not one made up of recruits. Kevin also managed this admirably. I must admit to being slight envious at those who were able to throw 50+ dice at a time compared with my usual 3 to 6 dice. Oh well, there is always next time.
In the meantime I'll just paint up some Russian rout markers!
Peter

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obriendavid
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Post by obriendavid » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:56 pm

Dale wrote:An excellent game which was in the balance up until the last move of the game.
What game were you fighting in?
It was all over except the mopping up by Sunday lunchtime :D
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Dave
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obriendavid
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Post by obriendavid » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:05 pm

Dale wrote: Peter N, our only point of disagreement in the rules centered round my built up area. The confusion arose about what can be done with the part of the brigade unable to enter the BUA, where the brigade general should be situated and where the Divisional general should be to have any influence on events. The explanation varied with each person we consulted hence the poncing about by my brigade general both inside and outside the BUA.

I'll ask Barry for a definitive answer and that will end all uncertainty.


Barry's away on business at the moment so he might not be able to answer so here's my take on it.

When your Brigadier is in the BUA the unit he is with can react to him and get bonus' but the rest of his brigade outside the BUA would count as being outwith command radius even if they are within 9" of the BUA and any movement would cost double MP's. If the Brigadier leaves the BUA and joins the rest of his brigade they act as normal and troops left in the BUA basically act as an independent unit .
The 9" zone of control seemed to cause you some confusion. This is not a command bonus to the defenders it is set up to force the enemy to either attack the BUA or force them away before they can bypass it.
Hope this clarifies this for you?
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Dave
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Post by Dale » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:41 am

Thanks Dave, I hope that clarifies that for everyone.

Your description matches exactly what I wanted to do from the start of the game ie place my brigade commander outside the BUA to allow the other two battalions to set up in the adjacent field to the right of the BUA.

One btn set up with it's left flank touching the edge of the BUA and the other set up at right angles to that one hoping to line up against the hedge which would have put that btns frontage at 10 inches from the BUA but only 7 inches from the brigadier who was then in the field.

However each time you said it was OK to have the brigadier outside the BUA someone else would insist that he must be moved back to the BUA.

The last time you ruled on that situation, to keep the peace, I had just reluctantly placed the the Brig back in the edge of the BUA which of course meant that one of my btns outside was 10 inches from the BUA. It was made to withdraw from it's defensive position against the hedge,back one inch, meaning that it lost the benefit of cover and could not then see the enemy that was approching it. Not quite a defining moment but clearly different song sheets were in use.

Long story but I agree with your analysis and interpretation of the rules.
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obriendavid
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Post by obriendavid » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:10 pm

Dale, I think the problem seemed to be that you wanted your brigadier to control the unit in the BUA as well as controlling the rest of his brigade which was outside, at least that's the impression I got when I was asked to adjudicate on the situation. Barry might add something else to my explanation if I have got it wrong.
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Post by barr7430 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:49 pm

Actually chaps the issue is pretty simple. IF the brigadier is IN the tile or BUA (irrespective of its size) he is defacto, ATTACHED to the garrison. Therefore his entire brigade, with the exception of the garrison is OUT OF COMMAND...

-Minus modifier for Resolve checks
-Double MPs to do anything other than the cost of maintenance of BRIGADE orders. This means any Single Unit Actions cost double points per unit which will be at a minimum 2points for DRILLED, VETERANS & GUARD and 4 points for RECRUITS.

The garrison will of course get a Resolve modifier for having Brigadier attached and be in Command.

That clear for everyone? :D
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Post by Angus Konstam » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:20 am

Chaps,

I don't see what you lot are moaning about. I never played these rules before, and I had no problem with fighting in built-up areas, even though they seemed to span the tabletop with their 9-inch "force fields". This might, of course, have something to do with my troops never managing to get close to a town in the whole game! Also, no rules set in the world can cope with a combination of town-fighting and Dale... :twisted:

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Post by Dale » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:38 pm

Thank you Angus, that's the nicest thing you've ever said about me but ........ I wasn't involved in town fighting at any time in the game.

My sole intention OUTSIDE the built up area was to use my brigadier to keep the other two battalions under control and to try to place them in a defensive position to support those in the BUA. I wasn't fixated by the "9 inch zone of control" of the BUA but some others were.

Dave, each time you came along I had just been instucted by others that I must put my brigadier in the BUA and, each time I was trying to explain to you what I had just been forced to do against my better judgement.

I'm happy with the explanations that you and Barry have given and we all now know how these rules are to be used. It's simple, fair and it all works well.

PS Angus, Colin and Dave, Shelagh and eldest son Christopher are planning to deliver your TARGE cup to SESWC this evening. RAF Leuchars have their cup now too. Sorted!
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obriendavid
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Post by obriendavid » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:18 pm

Dale wrote: PS Angus, Colin and Dave, Shelagh and eldest son Christopher are planning to deliver your TARGE cup to SESWC this evening. RAF Leuchars have their cup now too. Sorted!
Dale, If Shelagh hasn't left yet you could let her know that Colin and myself won't be there tonight but Angus might be. If none of us are there she could hand it over to Jack Glanville or any of the other committee members.
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Dave
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Post by barr7430 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:33 am

Angus, nice to see I can wring a grudging Cminus out of you for my R2E Report card in the Pravda section of Konstam's Wargames Bugle :lol: . I guess I should have let you win instead of twatting you! I of course wrote the rules for the sole purpose of one day trouncing you on the the table :lol:
Now I can consign the book to history and move on... mission accomplished and very enjoyable it was 8)
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