Page 3 of 5

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:53 pm
by obriendavid
Just a quick reminder chaps to bring along your tape measures, average and d6 dice and the R2E rules if you have them.
See you all tomorrow.

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:50 am
by Blucher

..Toggy and I will be there for 7.00pm...(hopefully having staggered from the pub!!!)...

...see you all later.

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:23 am
by barr7430
Despite my efforts to curtail the scale of this one, it will be the most massive events we've even done. I looks like the French will begin with around 100 battalions on the table with the Russians in proportion. It will take a bit of setting up. We'll need to get some satellite stations set up around the big tables to manage the divisions being place out and labelled.

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:11 am
by sharnydubs
Dale, I will be there for 7pm. There is a lot of kit to be shifted!

see you there


Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:44 pm
by barr7430
Well it's all over finally. I thought, I'd kick off the arguments(oops I mean discussions) with some stats.

24 x 12 foot table in 4 sections.
13 players
Rule set Republic to Empire
Figures from 13 different collections
Russians, Italians,French,Poles, Portugeuse,Spanish and German troops.

The French used initially : 95 battalions, 5 batteries of guns backed up by 4 rounds of fire from a 100 gun Grand battery. They were reinforced by a further 20 battalions, 4 batteries and 28 regiments of cavalry(including 12 cuirassiers and carabiniers, 4 dragoons, 5 lancers,2 Chasseur and 5 Hussar).
This represented 62,000 Infantry (3,100 models), 6,000 cavalry (300 models), 72 on table guns and 100 off table (36 + 50 models). As the entire Grande Armee was not engaged at Borodino we pretty much had covered what the French committed on the day.

The Russians used initially: 58 battalions with a further 26 on table in reserve (84), 10 batteries of guns, 6 regiments of cavalry and 16 regiments of cossacks. They were reinforced by 8 regiments of Cuirassiers, 2 regiments of Lancers and 2 batteries.

This represented 37,000 infantry (1900 models approx), 6,000 cavalry (300 models) and 144 on table guns ( 72 models).

The Russians held 3 villages: Utitsa, Semenovskoye and Borodino. They had 5 smaller redoubts and the Great Redoubt.

Some highlights for me:

1. The almost 5 hour fight for the Great Redoubt which saw at its height around 18 battalions from both sides involved at the same time! Marshal Ney fell here along with 4 French Brigadiers a General of Division and 7 battalions commanders. Russian officer casaulties were enormous and included Kutiatsov, a Religious party and at least 1 general of division.

2. The capture of a drunken Marshal Kutusov by the 2nd Carabiniers when they over ran the battery he was sheltering in.

3. The wreck of the Holy Icon Talisman of the Russian army as the 9th Cuirassiers pursued the broken Military Order Cuirassiers through the religious parade!

4. The tile of death 8)

5. Predicting Adrian's continual stream of 1s :lol:

I am certain there are 100 other memorable moments for everyone but this is my immediate recall. A great game and a very close result...
well I agreed with Napoleon's interpretation. I think tactically the Russians fought a great battle but, we cracked their centre and there was a big - about 900 yards wide between the left and the right.

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:40 am
by Greystreak
But Barry, as Napoleon himself noted, it's never enough to kill a Russian, you have to knock him down, as well :shock: :lol:

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:59 am
by barr7430
After all those stats I realised I didn't actually say anything about the result!

The Poles took Utitsa twice and were thrown out... twice

Davout took the 4th fleche and held it and took the southern fleche and lost it but got no further into the Semenovskoye cauldron.

Ney took the Raevsky redoubt and split the Russian line behind the redoubt.
Eugene took Borodino after a masterful defence by the Guard Jager but was stymied by a wall of around 5,000 cavalry including the entire Russian Imperial Guard Division.

This means both the old and new road to Moscow were still in Russian hands by the end of the battle although their army was cut in two.

The Russians had sufficient numbers, quality and order to withdraw without fear of any kind of pursuit, they could have held on for at least a further day of gaming time on both flanks and if isolated in the Semenovskoye position but, if the French had reinforced through the linked centre tables (there were 11 uncommitted regiments of cavalry around the Great redoubt) Bagration's right would have been under severe pressure and they would have needed to withdraw. Although the 2nd Grenadier Division was in reserve behind Semenovskoye, it would have been forced to react defensively without cavalry support which had already been unsuccessfully thrown in to the right centre against Nansouty and DeFrance.

A Russian counter attack was not in my opinion possible other than in a localised way around Utitsa and the Fleches.

The French Imperial Guard had no elements committed. The Russians did not use any Guard infantry except the Jagers in Borodino but did use 6 regiments of Guard cavalry including the Cuirassiers to block Eugene and the Italians. The Russians had two other siginifcant reinforcement formations unused: The entire 3rd Division off table behind the Opolochenie in the southern zone and a Division of Dragoons behind the Right flank on the Borodino side.

Kutusov (before being captured) was offered the option of using 6 battalions of the Russian Guard to shore up the centre with the caveat that this would release the French Imperial Guard at an undisclosed location on the front line.... an Umpire bluff of course :lol: He chose not to use his own Guard regiments.

I think the result was very, very close to history with the French falling down in the Fleches area as the main differentiator. Flanks looked right and the Raevsky redoubt area looked right.

There was a solitary Russian battalion in square left in the extreme eastern corner of the Raevsky table at the end of the game. It was from Vasilchikov's 12th Division I recall. Ade WAS determined still to have a baby toe hold on the table at the close to claim a major victory :lol:

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:26 pm
by Angus Konstam
Well, what a great weekend of gaming. Well done Barry for organising it, and to all the participants for making the weekend so memorable. The tables were fairly groaning under the weight of all that lead...

My highlight was our battle for "the fleche-pots", all but one of which were held by the Russians throughout the game - although the French had to be repeatedly ejected from two of them. We were even poised to retake the one in French hands when the final whistle blew. Charles, Kevin, Steve, Dave and I all enjoyed our game on that table, despite the carnage around the central fleches. In real life the dead would have been piled several feet high!

As for the other central table, despite Barry's claims Ade not only still had a toe-hold on the table, but Andy's cuirassiers were still in play, and he had an uncommitted reserve of eight battalions he never got to use. Then there was the "Iron Curtain" which closed off any movement between the two central tables - conveniently dropping just as the French were consolidating their hold on the captured Grand Redoubt! We were poised to transfer 12 battalions from the centre left table to the centre right one - troops that could easily have "plugged the gap" the French claimed was there for the exploiting ... if they had any unbroken troops left to fill it!

The bottom line is that the Russians held the French on all four tables, both Ney and Davout's Corps were shattered in the process, and General Bonaparte was stopped dead in his tracks. It was clearly a hard-won Russian defensive victory, and I tip my hat to Ade and Andy for halting the French steamroller.

Incidentally, can the Russian players check their boxes for a missing brigadier? He's a mounted figure - probably wearing a forage cap, on a 40mm circular base. Its got "2nd Brigade, 7th Division Col. Augustov" written underneath it.

Best Wishes,


Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:38 pm
by barr7430
Fantastic, it's started, the post match propaganda and counter propaganda :lol:
A small correction on the Cuirassiers Angus, none were left. All 5 regiments were routed or destroyed. The last was humped in the final round of combat by the 9e Cuirassier.
The gap closing was also on the suggestion of the 'Russian Umpire' not I :wink: It was also to enable you chaps wasting your time in the flesh pots to enjoy even more time in the flesh pots.....

So, crushing would be an adjective I would ascribe to neither side's position either in victory or defeat.
An honourable contest, fought honourably, by honourable gentlemen.... but won by the French

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:48 pm
by obriendavid
This must rate as one of the best games the LOGW has put on, the four tables looked spectacular with all the figures set up and was daunting to view when all the French cavalry reinforcements were brought on.

Surprisingly? 'Frenchy' Hilton forgot? to include or offer the Russians the use of the 2nd and 3rd Cavalry Corps which were sitting behind the central section which was a bit unfortunate as there were still boxes of troops that had been painted for game and never took part. :roll:

Barry also forgot to mention that the Russians held 10 of the 15 objectives at the end of the game and the only table they actually did well on was the Great Redoubt table and that was only because of the lack of the two cavalry corps and not allowing the transfer of the Grenadier division at the end of the day. So from my perspective it was a glorious Russian victory to celebrate my birthday.

There were plenty of photos being taken throughout the weekend so I'm sure they'll be posted soon.

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:04 pm
by obriendavid
barr7430 wrote: Some highlights for me:
5. Predicting Adrian's continual stream of 1s :lol:
Perhaps Adrian and Kevin should have had a roll off to see how many ones each of the could roll, I'm sure it would a very close contest.
I was eventually starting to feel sorry for Kevs French because of the number of ones he managed to roll and they all seemed to be for morale tests so my highlight of the weekend was that I only lost one battalion which retreated with 50% casualties the remainder remaining safely in command of the Southern fleche and the area South of it.

Another highlight has to be the battle for Utitsa between the Russians and Poles which started on move three on the first day and was still taking place at the end of the battle with the Poles about to lauch yet another attack on the village. The village changed hands twice and after the Russians retook it they beat off two further assaults and the body count was horrendous and many officers falling victim. Dale has a reputation for being very cautious with his troops but not in this battle and he should be congratulated on his aggressive performance.

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:19 pm
by Friedrich August I.
obriendavid wrote:........ celebrate my birthdayDave

The 200th Birthday? :lol: :wink:

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:21 pm
by barr7430
And of course, readers of this pre- revolution edition of PRAVDA with immediately recognise the tone of Liberte-Egalite-Fraternite in the unbaised and objective musings of a French player who appreciated the fighting qualities of his extremely heavily entrenched, static and defensive enemy. Contrast this with the quasi feudal, narrow minded flat earthers who relied heavily on huge numbers of on table guns, earthworks and a religious rag and bone cart which trundled along the front to provide +2 on every resolve check within a 24 inch orbit of its black magic voodoo. In addition the Dark Age horde teleported 4 priests across the 24 feet length of the battlefield quicker than Dr Who's Tardis could manage. They seemed to have multiplied or perhaps it was in breeding. By the end of the game there were more of them than rats in the Moscow Metro! :shock:

We Western Europeans were confident that our brand of free market capitalism, overseen by a Southern European Career Politician and Statesman who, unfettered by an almost slave like class system rose to the top of the heap, was something that any right thinking individual would prefer to living in a dung hut and drinking potato alcohol.

That particular pastime was fully evidenced by the enemy commander Marshal Kut- yer- toes- off, captured drunk when his Wodka Club Gang Hut was over run.

We are all back in Paris (Capital of the World)polishing our well earned medals. Give Russia to the Mongols I say :lol:

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:04 pm
by obriendavid
barr7430 wrote: Contrast this with the quasi feudal, narrow minded flat earthers who relied heavily on huge numbers of on table guns,
This is ironic from the side that started the battle with four moves of bombardment from a 100 gun battery without the Russians being able to reply and not satisfied with that the 'unbiased' umpire Frenchy Hilton allowed them to do the same on day two just as the French had been heavily reinforced. As if a 100 gun battery wasn't enough they also had multiple batteries on the table supporting them. So much for the French bringing Liberte, Equatite and Fraternate to the peaceful loving Russian peoples :shock:

Re: Borodino weekend

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:16 pm
by barr7430
We say 'Non Monsieur L'Umpire Russkie!' :lol:

Ney's Corps was moving forward so fast that our meagre artillery provision could not keep pace with the advance. Le Francaises were outgunned on all tables by the massed regiments of Russian cannon, why, on your very on Maginot Line table Monsieur you had 14 gun models in the redoubts backed up by a 6 gun model battery on the hill behind. That is 1/2 the French Grand battery on tap continuously!!!!!
I recall, for most of the game this arsenal was faced by a single French 6 pdr battery of models and laterally reinforced by 2 further 6 pdr batteries.... how quickly they forget :roll:
In this case, the vanquished, not the victors(The French) are trying to re write history :lol: