Indian Mutiny Colours?

covering mainly Crimean & American Civil War
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Atheling
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Indian Mutiny Colours?

Post by Atheling » Tue May 11, 2010 10:42 am

Hi,

I've been reliably informed that British battalions would have been sans colours whilst in action during the Mutiny- or at the very least there is some major debate on the subject.

I've decided that my units are going to look somewhat shabby without their respective colours and I'm trying to find a source, preferably a manufacturer, but any online resourse/book advice would be very much appreciated.

So, gents, can anyone give me any pointers?

Darrell.
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Post by Atheling » Sat May 29, 2010 11:45 am

Anyone?

Darrell.
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Post by jimmigoggles » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:57 am

Hello Darrell,

Not sure what you're after?

Proof of whether colours were carried, or what the colours were?

Sorry for being dense!

Dean
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Post by Atheling » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:38 pm

Dean,

Sorry for not being too clear- I'd like to know if the colours were carried but also, I'm looking for reference meterial to allow my regiments to carry their colours regardless- they will just look so much better that way :) .

Darrell.
jimmigoggles wrote:Hello Darrell,

Not sure what you're after?

Proof of whether colours were carried, or what the colours were?

Sorry for being dense!

Dean
Just Add Water High Quality Painting Service:
http://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.co.uk/
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http://gewalthaufen.blogspot.co.uk/
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Post by PaulMc » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:17 pm

Hi Darrell,

I asked those nice chaps at Mutineer Miniatures for some info, here's what they said:

"...early in the mutiny the mutineers used their regimental flags to taunt the British and some regiments did carry flags but many were kept cased the foundry book on India shows many of the standards used I have attached some info LBM will be making a range for me this year first two samples attached."

I'll send you a copy of a pdf they sent me too, hope this is some help to you.
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Post by jimmigoggles » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:58 am

Darrell,

I've had a quick look so far. A lot of my Mutiny era books are out of reach at the moment. Haven't found any info stating that British units did not carry colours, and due to the nature of the war, i would have thought that not carrying them would be counter productive.

Actual British units weren't wiped out. Some garrisions were, but these tended to be made up of ad hoc units of whatever could be scraped together. So, no colours were taken from garrision depots, which suggests that the colours were carried into the fieeld by the main unit. Obviously, in the case of native mutineer units, there colours would have been taken/retained by the mutineers.

There is info on whole units mutinying and marching on Delhi with colours flying and bands playing! Indian troops were and are very proud of previous battle honours. Many being long service veterans.

Anyway, two good points of reference are The British in India, by John French. One of the Foundry Books publications, and very useful. It has lots of Mutiny uniform info. A good section on flags at the back. All in black and white though.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-India-1 ... 50QUI5BCHE

Another handy little book, Military Flags of the World 1618-1900, by Terence Wise, is an old Blandford publication. So, lots of nice colour plates of flags. None for the Mutiny exactly, but some Crimean and later colonial era i think. Gives you the general idea anyway.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Military-Flags- ... 50QUI5BCHE

Some units were issued new flags at different times, and if i remeber correctly, all flags were changed and reduced in size towards the end of this period.

A good source is checking out the local cathedral or church of some of the British units. The actual flags used are still hanging there.

Lichfield cathedral even has the flags captured from the Sikhs in the First Sikh War by the 80th(?).

Are you interested in British Queens regiments, British company regiments (european and/or native) or the Mutineers?

Obviously, the native or local troops supplied by landowners, rajas etc would not be of British design. In the Blandford book, there's a plate showing Nepalese flags from the 1815 war. Large numbers of Nepalese army ghurkas fought alongside the British during the Mutiny. So maybe the flags hadn't changed much.

Native company units had colours very similar to British units, but possibly with local variations (urdu words etc?).

HM Queens British cavalry would not carry any flags.

Slightly off/on topic are two very good books which any Indian Mutiny devotee should read.

Our Bones Are Scattered, by Andrew Ward. Predominately centres on the Cawnpore and local massacres, but with good info on the relieving forces field battles also. Quite a harrowing read in parts, but a must.

Flashman in the Great Game, by George Macdonald Fraser. A little tongue in cheek, but the history is very accurate. Excellent.

Also, to get a visual idea, but less historical view of the Mutiny, the Bollywood movie The Rising, is worth a look. (Yes, it is in my dvd collection, but it's my wife's, not mine!).

You might be able to see some pictures in older copies from the early nineties of Wargames Illustrated of Trickett/Whitehouse Indian Mutiny games, to get some other ideas.

I'll try and look out some other refernces soon.

Sorry for waffling on, but i hope this helps.

Dean
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Post by Atheling » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:32 pm

Dean,

Thanks a lot! That's quite a bit of info to absorb. I have the Foundry book so there is my starting point.

It was the Queens regiments that I was mainly interested in.

Anyway, I'll report back with pics as I go along :) .

Again, thanks for your help- much appreciated.

Darrell.
Just Add Water High Quality Painting Service:
http://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.co.uk/
Gawalthaufen Blog (Late 15C Warfare):
http://gewalthaufen.blogspot.co.uk/
La Journee Blog (Early 15thC Warfare):
http://lajourney-bedford.blogspot.co.uk/
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