League Of Augsburg - Fighting Talk

Has anyone got a good rationale for favouring any one particular set of ancient rules(i`m thinking greek-alexandrian-roman period)over all the others out there. I`d love to hear peoples opinions.

Hi

I dont know about a rationale (rationality not being one of my more robust points) but having played several ruleset; WRG 7th, DBM, Empire, Shock Of Impact, Armati, PK Archon, Vis Bellica (to name-drop a few) over the years a set that soars above all these for my tastes (note I am a WWII freak at heart) is................drum roll..................

Might Of Arms (http://home.earthlink.net/~bryantbob/)

MOA plays a bit like a cross between Wrg 6th and 7th editions but so much more playable than either and fun to boot.
I find the inter-relations between troop and weapon types and the flow of action during a game gives exciting and plausible outcomes (based on my limited knowledge of the periods covered).
Figures are based in elements using WRG 'standard' base sizes so added benefit of allowing use with DBM. I mention this as I find DBM a decent enough set for friendly games between like-minded players (tedious writing style though) and I would bet that you would have little difficulty finding at least some gamers to play if you go the DBM route.

I know Warhammer Historical Battles (WAB as it is somewhat unfortunately abbreviated) is popular but I know nothing of its systems.

Note : I recently purchased the new Warmaster Ancients set which reads well but are untried by moi as yet.

If you have more specific questions please feel free to ask me here or via email at sgt.steiner@virgin.net

Cheers

john
i use the wab with age of chivelry supplement for the medieval game i played and found them to be easy to use
gary

obvious questions John,

how large scale do you want these battles to be? hoe complicated do you want the rules? for beginning i would suggest armati or vis bellica, probably if you want the macedonians etc then vis bellica may be the better choice.

personal view avoid dba and dbm like the plague, they are terible rules and so out of date now it is ridiculous

IanB

I think that i`d like to have a look at doing battles on a medium to large scale.

Armies as opposed to skirmishes.

I also would like a rule set that wasn`t to basic,I`m all for easily finished games when everyone is limited in time but i`d like to see something a bit more involved for when we have the luxury of spare time.

try vis bellica for ancient and medieval, the army lists are in 3 volumes to cover all periods, the website is www.visbellica.com

IanB

I`ve had a look at sgt steiners suggested site and thought it looked interesting.I also seem to be being pushed towards thracians thanks to some very nice 15mm Xystos figures kindly given to me.I`ll have to find some reference plates and have a go at painting them as they are very nice and crisp figures,i like the sculpting quality a great deal.Xystos looks to have a large and quality packed line.Rules wise i`ve now had a look at DBA and DBM and i was unfortunatly dissapointed by them,there just not inspiring-apologies to their fans.I bought empire rules for ancients many years ago but they had only produced one suppliment for the punic wars last i heard,does anyone know anything different?I think i would like to see and use a rule set at about this level,if anyone knows of anything similar or useful please write.There must be some of you out there into hellenistic gaming so why not give a new guy some pointers

If you like Ancient Empires, there is a yahoo group reworking all the rules: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancientempires2nd/

The new edition rules are there availlable for free. I'll give them a try in the near future.


My favorite rules set for the moment is Armati ll. You would need only around 40 - 60 miniatures to start playing, but if you have larger armies, say of around 200 - 300 miniatures, you can still use the same rules. This is because you can play the game at three levels, intro, optimal and epic.

Basing is identical to DBA/DBM.

There are many special rules for certain armies, troop types and and situations. So every army got it's own way to play.

Army lists in the book start with Sumerians (3000BC?) up to the end of the War of the Roses.

I also like WAB now and then, but if you want realistic rules you should try Armati ll.

Wim VdB

Hi,

I'm not going to recommend any particular set of rules, but I'll give you my "thumbnail views" of the ones I've played to any great extent.

WRG 7th (reworked as Warrior) -- Very much a "mental" game in that it often becomes more like a chess match as you figure out different matchups and try to maneuver troops so that you get the advantage. The "Barkerese" language that it is written in can spawn many heated discussions as to just what is intended. While I find it very mentally stimulating, it certainly isn't an easy rule set. A very high learning curve . . . and not always realistic.

Warhammer Ancient Battles (WAB) -- Has much more of a "skirmish" feeling than of a large "Ancients" battle. The stats/capabilities of Generals belong (if anywhere) only in fantasy -- certainly not in a serious historical game. Nevertheless, it can be fun -- but I think I'd look elsewhere for a serious set of rules (unless that's what people in your area are playing). Battlestandard Ancient Rules are certainly an improvement over these.

DBA -- Much maligned in my opinion. Simple to learn and play; but can be very competitive. Excellent as an introductory game because you don't need a lot of figures to get started. The fantasy version of these rules, "Hordes of the Things" is (in my opinion) a much better set of rules (and loads of fun -- buy it and give it a try). Good game for multi-player campaigns that can be run in a day.

DBM -- This started out as a good game -- the battles at least looked like Ancient battles. However, as Barker revised and re-revised it (and a some players became very rules lawyerish) it got worse. Not too bad if you can get a mellow opponent -- but don't play this with a "tournament player" if you want a pleasant game.

TACTICA -- I only played this a few times and found it much too formalized and constricting. Never did like it.

Battlestandard Ancient Rules -- I helped playtest these rules and our group enjoyed them very much. Something like WAB, only much better (in my opinion). I don't know how widely known they are -- nor how they stack up against some of the other rule sets others have touted (I've never even read most of them). For information, got to their website at:

http://www.battlestandard.com/rules_arm ... ules.shtml

Finally, the most useful aspect of any rule set is that someone else is willing to play it with you. Be amenable. If your opponent likes a particular rule set, play it.

Hope that this helps.


-- Jeff

Hi

Just to say that interesting times for Ancients games with whole rash of new/upcoming rules.

DBMM just out (Phil Barkers latest)

Warlord new set by Trevor Halsall (didnt even know he was still around)

Ancient Principles of War (online playtest at present)

Art Of War (Playtesting stage of set from Osprey)

Crusader (new set from Crusader Miniatures)

Cheers

And there is also the upcoming rulesset from Osprey, rencently renamed Field of Glory.

Thanks for the info on the new rule sets guys. I`m pretty sure i saw a big glossy ad for the new osprey set about a month ago but the other info is new to me(too busy studying to look over the battlements at the moment,god save us from essays ). Do you have any info on when these sets will be avaliable? Any ideas on what sort of mechanics they will employ? Any info welcome

the crusader set is reviewed on the miniatures page, if you have no idea where that is try www.theminiaturespage.com. The reveiw seems to say they are a sort of hybrid from wab and another set.

i'll post any links or info as i hear it

IanB

Field of Glory (or art of war that was) will be published by Osprey in February 2008. These are a good set of rules that I am enjoying playtesting. Fast play but good historical feel.
John

I'm quite struck on the way Might of Arms works.

DBx basing. Seems to work well for classical "ancient" as well as medieval