Movement rates

[barr7430]

I have greatly extended movement rates in R2E but have tinkered modestly with then in BLB.
I get the feeling that people think Foot are too slow but that Horse is pretty much ok give or take.

Can we get some quick feedback on movement rates please.

Joe and Steve have already chipped in extensively on this topic by email

thanks

[Captain of Dragoons]

Prussians

Did the Prussian Infantry during this period already adopted a Step/Standard Pace/Cadence

Cheers
Edward

[Shann1870]

I think you are right Barry - cavalry works fine, but infantry line movement (in my opinion) is a little slow. I know it was a fairly "stately" period, but 6 inches might be better.

[CoffinDodger]

"Never trust a set of rules where infantry don't move six inches."
Don Featherstone - Attributed

Having said that, surely if you tinker with the infantry movement rates then you have to adjust weapon ranges. The infantry might look slow but their move seems, from my limited plays, to be in reasonable proportion to weapon ranges.

Jim

[obriendavid]

When I first started playing BLB I used to think that the movement rates were quite slow but after many games I got used to them and feel that they reflect the slower nature of warfare and lack of training of the period.

Cheers
Dave

[Darkman]

If you adjust the movement rate for Foot you would not need to do anything about the firing ranges. They are much to big any way.
At best they should only be about as long as a battalion is wide.

I am still of the opinion that horse are about right.

I suppose movement rates are all about how much time you have to play games in.

If you have a couple of days then 4" moves are fine if you have say 5 hours on a sunday but still want to get all the toys out then it can be a bit of a drag.

If you start even 24" apart it will still take 6 moves to get to the other side. And that is if you can move everything.

[obriendavid]

As stated earlier I have no probs with the 4" movement for infantry in line but I was wondering why you have changed the infantry column on road from 16" to 12" especially when you then have to form up into close column then form line.

Cheers
Dave

[flick40]

Road column of march was discussed via email as well.

We play tested it last night. We had a 12 turn game, played all 12 turns on a 5'x7' table and it was turn 9 or 10 before those troops were a factor in the game. Too late to matter as well.

Part of the reason for that was the command rolls each turn and the commanders decision to move or not move them.

For simplicity, playability and speed we thought let guard/elite go from road column to line in 1 turn, drilled in 2, raw in 3. A form order still being required of course. It's cut and dried, no die roll needed, and no remembering "was this the second turn of my change?"

as for the move distances we didn't have a problem another 4" probably wouldn't have mattered in our game.

[j1mwallace]

fully agree with Dave. like the infantry move as is .Infantry formations were quite cumbersome and slow to move in the period. re the question regarding Prussians. they had not started to move as discussed.
A really good read on the subject is Brent Noseworthy's book.
i actually feel that an about face should take at least a whole turn.
The units in question didn't actually about face at all. they turned to the flank. marched off, and retaced their steps to about face. if you didn't and simply turned round your grenadiers , file closers and officers were all in the wrong place!!

[barr7430]

that's interesting Jim.. can you supply more details on that manoeuvre.. sounds significant

[Churchill]

Hi Everyone,

First of all Movement Rates, I agree with Dave and most members here, Cavalry are fine the way it is and the Infantry should be at a slow pace at least the regular standing formations of the day so 4" works for me.
Commander Ability - I think a major gripe among some BLB players is having the misfortune of dicing for your commanders ability and scoring a 2 on a average dice and receiving a Plodder which means each turn you dice for orders using a D10 a score of at least 5 is needed to move as you drop one category.There's nothing worse to see your army not being able to do anything at all while your enemy run's riot around you and you can't respond.
So my thoughts were to change the D10 for orders to a D100, 01 to 25% = 25%, 26 to 50% = 50% Movement, 51 to 75% = 75% and 76 to 100% = 100%.
Plodders still drop a catagory, but will always move at least 25% of it's army.
Note that these Move Orders are only needed when troops wish to move, charge, form or rally back.
Troops with a Defend/Hold order do not need a Move Order so hence don't count as part of the order percentage.All troops may fire if in range and need a fire order, but again these don't count as part of the movement percentage.Artillery wishing to swivel must have a Move Order and so can't fire that turn except Light/Battalion Guns.
Keep the four ability levels and the catagory modifications as they are now.
I'd be interested in all your thoughts on this idea and it is only a IDEA

Cheers............Ray.

[18th Century Guy]

Barry,

The about face manuver in most rulesets I believe is far to favorable in time and movement. When a unit about faces, if it does so as most gamers might think then the entire unit is in reverse order which is significant when it comes to firing. For platoon firing units the firing platoons are reversed! For volley firing the elite units are in the wrong position within the battalion and the companies are reversed. To truly do an about face and keep the proper alignments the battalion would turn to the right and then proceed to complete a U shaped march. This would keep everyone where the officers expected them to be.

Be that as it may I think the about face that most of us see is more of a 'gaming' action and maybe a necesity to allow gamers a bit more freedom. Otherwise the game becomes more of a simulation than a game and once you start than then it will bog down with rules for every situation.

So, after this long winded post I'd make the about face a full turn of movement.

[Shann1870]

I guess different people want different things from their games, which is as it should be. Personally the amount of action per move, as it were, ranks quite highly for me. R2E, a different rule set for a different period admittedly, seems to allow players to look for and find trouble pretty quickly. Agree with Churchill about the command and control - penalise plodders by all means but perhaps a little less harshly. Really interesting debate!!

[barr7430]

Guys,

it will get confusing if I try to address an answer to individuals and the points they make but I am READING EVERYTHING you post!

To the recent posts:
DEFINITE decisions:

1. About face: 1 TURN: Thanks Jim W & Greg for this AGREED - it's in!

Ray, interesting stuff on the %age movement. I have already modified this in BLB2.. only a 1 gets you ZERO movement now. I do however like the occasional paralysis so I think the 1 = no movement will stay. Of course a way round Plodder is for your gaming buddies to agree that NO PLODDERS are allowed and that a 2 gets you - COMPETENT.
Again, I still like the idea of imbeciles commanding troops... I think historically there are several examples!!!

DEFEND orders have again changed significantly so that will become apparent in the rules when published.

On the subject of cavalry movement I am reworking the whole table right now but I am almost convinced to make ALL horse 9including Cuirassiers and Dragoons) have the same movement but here is my BIG question..

How do you all feel about VARIABLE MOVEMENT for everything?

At the moment it is only Routs, Pursuits and Evades but what about charges, and ordinary movement?

[Shann1870]

Variable movement would be my preference as it provides uncertainty and makes co-ordination more difficult. Will send you a tin-opener for Christmas to deal with all the cans of worms you are opening. Best of luck with BLB 2 - I can't wait to see it!