How late into the WSS can the Warfare line serve?

[Rob Herrick]

Fairly self evident question. When did tricorn hats become more predominant than floppy ones? Presumably bayonets were not fixed all the time, once socket bayonets were introduced?

[barr7430]

Well that is a good question Rob and it is also a subject which I have scribbled about several times over the years. When is a hat a tricorne or not?
Having spent a day as an extra on a movie set in 1746 and having had to wear something that was called a tricorne but looked a lot like a squashed grey handbag, I can say that a three cornered hat can look a lot like nothing when a bit - and worn.
I have been experimenting with the hat brims of the WARFARE codes available so far. They are pretty bend-able. Ths means a whole variety of hat shapes can be created from the existing models as you will shortly see when I post up an image of a newly completed Jacobite unit 'at ease'. Tricorne shapes can be made very easily by doing something as simple as pressing the edge of the hat against your workbench! I will do some shaping and take pictures for reference.

Of course I am going to be expected to say that you can use non tricorned hats for as late as possible... so I WON'T say that. Rather, I WILL say, How long would a tricorne remain a tricorne in the field considering it is a cheap piece of felt pinned or sown up at three points on the brim? Get your wife to stand outside in her best hat for a couple of hours on a - windy day and after the divorce ask her to take a picture of her hat.. that sould answer the question!

As for bayonets... if you don;t like plugs then cut them off. If the logic that promotes use of Apostles well into the 1690's is followed then the same logic applies to plug bayonets.. would a colonel whose regiment was equipped with serviceable plugs wantonly discard these to spend more of his own cash on new socket bayonets which MAY or MAY not be required on the off chance the unit was in a major battle? British soldiers in the Falklands and Iraq ONE couldn't get the right boots because the MOD said the boots they had were good enough! Not according to the Squaddies!!

Rigid demarcation as enforced by the WFP (Wargames Fashion Police) is bunkum.

[j1mwallace]

Hear hear Barry!!
Does anyone but the wargames fashion police really believe that at midnight on 31st December (all calenders synchronised)1699 everyone was just waiting to turn their hats from floppy to those nice new tricornes.
I use figures with/without floppy hats, tricornes, apostles.
We've had these conversations many times at the club.The other one is cavalry tactics.
Again did the british wait til midnight on the same day because they knew that with their new tricornes they were now much harder.?

[Rob Herrick]

I'm intrigued to see how the Jacobites come out. I admit, I'm a fan of the tricorn; I like how it looks on a fig, though I agree it's probably not long to retain it's shape in the field. I was more concerned with whether they'd mix well across the table from some more traditional Imperialist British (I have 12 of the 1st Foot Guards and 12 of a Fusilier regiment from way back when) or look out of place.

I admittedly was asking about bayonets less to criticize the plugs (though I admit I don't like how they look - not a criticism on your line, but in general) than to wonder how accurate the constant fixing of bayonets is.

Now I'm tempted to purchase some for the painting competition - which is a dangerous thing!

j1mwallace, of course everybody went to the new, spiffy tricorns! Who wants to look out of place at the New Years Day ball?

[Arthur]

Does anyone but the wargames fashion police really believe that at midnight on 31st December (all calenders synchronised)1699 everyone was just waiting to turn their hats from floppy to those nice new tricornes

All serious students of military history know that the changeover took place at 11:58 pm rather than midnight. Whether this was or not GMT is still the subject of much scholarly debate.

[Friedrich August I.]

Fairly self evident question. When did tricorn hats become more predominant than floppy ones? ....

Hi Rob,

I know Wikipedia isnt quite the best of sources but it explains a bit more then others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricorne

History:

The tricorne appeared as a result of the evolution of the broad brim round hat used by Spanish soldiers in Flanders during the 17th century. By pledging the brims, a triangular shape was obtained, and since the corners offered protection from the rainy Flemish weather, this shape was favored by Spanish soldiers. In 1667, war broke out between France and Spain in the Spanish Netherlands. During the subsequent military struggle, its use spread to the French armies. The style was brought back to France, where its usage spread to the French population and the royal court of King Louis XIV, who made it fashionable throughout Europe, both as a civilian and military wear. By the end of the 17th century, the tricorne was popular in both civilian fashion and in military uniforms. They remained the one of the predominant European styles of hat throughout the 18th century.

I think that sheds some light to one of your questions.

Günter

[barr7430]

Rob,

on the 'bayonets fixed' question, I would imagine they were very rarely if ever, fixed for long. Charges were not common with bayonets fixed or not therefore in defence the musket as a distance weapon would be used. As linear tactics did not favour the 'charge' then the order would probably not have been given that frequently. Once fixed, getting it out may also have been problematic.

I am just finishing the Earl of Bath's Regiment with the centre companies advancing with BAYONETS FIXED and the wings shooting in the attack.. pictures soon

[CoffinDodger]

Does anyone but the wargames fashion police really believe that at midnight on 31st December (all calenders synchronised)1699 everyone was just waiting to turn their hats from floppy to those nice new tricornes

All serious students of military history know that the changeover took place at 11:58 pm rather than midnight. Whether this was or not GMT is still the subject of much scholarly debate.

My Dearest Aurthur,

Whilst I respect your scholarly research on the matter, you in fact commit a schoolboy error in not specifying whether the clock used was old style or new style but, in the true traditions of frendship, erudition and one-up-manship displayed on these august boards, the only comment I can make is,

"So there!"

I remain you most humble and obediant servant etc.,

CoffinDodger

************

Bob,

In answer to your original question, I paint both my Louis XIV and Napoleonic French in the earliest uniforms I can get away with in that the older clothes can be used at any later date whereas the newer ones can't be used before they were invented.

Regards,

Jim

[Arthur]

My Dearest Aurthur,

Whilst I respect your scholarly research on the matter, you in fact commit a schoolboy error in not specifying whether the clock used was old style or new style but, in the true traditions of frendship, erudition and one-up-manship displayed on these august boards, the only comment I can make is,

"So there!"

I remain you most humble and obediant servant etc.,

Dear James

Not so : regardless of the clock style, fighting men of the Grand Siècle insisted that their manly distinguishing feature stand proudly erect on the field of battle rather than sag limp and lifeless, which resulted in a whole lotta cockin' going on.

I am shocked and amazed that you fail to acknowledge William Haley's seminal 1954 study which established beyond any doubt that it was indeed possible to (c)ock around the clock. You also seem to overlook the essential part played by red floral plants in the process of stiffening the hats corners and I can only urge you to read my soon-to-be-published 1,200 page scholarly tome on late C17th poppycocking.

Yours respectfully

A.

[CoffinDodger]

...I can only urge you to read my soon-to-be-published 1,200 page scholarly tome on late C17th poppycocking.

Yours respectfully

A.

Aaah, Arthur, old Chap, that will no doubt be Osprey Great Manoeuvres sur les Derrieres #69.

Good luck with it. I shall obviously obtain a copy and at 1,200 pages that will last just over three-and-a-quarter years if you get my drift. Is it loose-leaf?

Yours etc.,

CD